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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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kologha
.224 member


Reged: 26/05/06
Posts: 5
Webley Screw Grip Action
      #58079 - 01/06/06 01:30 AM

Gentlemen,

Please excuse the intrusion, but I have posted this question on the shotgun forum for a number of days without a reply. I have been monitoring the DR forum for some time now and have learned a great deal about British gunmaking. I feel therefore that you gentlemen can provide the answer to my question. I have owned the shotgun pictured at the following web sites for more than 30 years and have always wanted to know who the maker of the action was. Am I correct in thinking that it is a Webley & Brain patent Screw Grip and if so might the action have been manufactured by Webley and supplied to the gunmaker William Calder who then barrelled it himself or had it barrelled by some other person. There are no numbers on the forend loop and only a capital M stamped on the rib next to the loop. Likewise the action has no numbers and only has Calder's name on the sides. I thank you for your indulgence.

Regards,
kologha
South Africa

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j141/kologha/Calder5.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j141/kologha/Calder3.jpg

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Webley Screw Grip Action [Re: kologha]
      #58090 - 01/06/06 05:23 AM

Webley made several patterns of screw-grip actions for both shotguns and rifles. Yours appears to be the most basic of the shotgun actions, with a straight extension as opposed to the doll's head of the more expensive A & W model. You'll find it on page 7 of the 1922 Webley & Scott catalog.

If there is a Webley number on the gun, it wouldn't be on the fore-end loop during this period. It would be on the short rib between the flats and the loop. During this period, it would be in the 62000 to 69000 range. Webley never numbered actions. They assigned serial numbers only when they barreled a gun, and the number was stamped on the barrels. Do I understand you correctly that there are no numbers on the gun at all? If so, this suggests that your surmise might be correct.

According to Brown, Calder was in business in Guild Street, Aberdeen from c. 1894 - 1917. He was at 30 Guild Street c. 1901 - 1905, so this gun should be from that period. The lack of a serial number suggests a small retailer who did not assign his own serial numbers, a surprisingly common practice in those days. With respect to their trade with other gunmakers, Webley provided mostly completed guns ready for sale, and some proven barreled actions in the white to be stocked and finished by the retailer. However, when Webley completed a gun for another gunmaker who did not assign serial numbers, they would usually engrave their own serial number on the guard tang and, of course, stamp that number on the barrels. If this gun has no Webley number on the barrels, and none elsewhere, then Webley neither barreled nor completed it.

I imagine this gun was built on an action that Webley sold to the trade, thus no Webley number, and was barreled , stocked, and finished either by Calder, or for Calder by someone else. It is commonly believed that Webley provided large numbers of screw-grip actions to the trade. With respect to the rifle actions, this was actually rather rare, but may have been more common with the shotguns.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Webley Screw Grip Action [Re: kologha]
      #58094 - 01/06/06 08:00 AM

Here are your pictures!






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Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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kologha
.224 member


Reged: 26/05/06
Posts: 5
Re: Webley Screw Grip Action [Re: kologha]
      #58123 - 01/06/06 02:46 PM

400NE,

I thank you sir for your detailed reply. That is the confirmation I was looking for. The gun was made in 1900 as it has a silver placque on the stock which says: "Presented to James M Bolton together with a silver fruit basket and scent bottle for Mrs Bolton as a mark of esteem from the Captains of Strathline and a few friends January 1901" I have managed to establish that Strath Line was a shipping company which operated out of Aberdeen, Scotland from about 1865 to 1930. The gun had no numbers on it whatsoever and only an M stamped on the lower rib just before the forend loop. It had to have a number engraved on it in order to comply with the SA licensing laws. The gun has 32" Damascus barrels is Nitro Proofed and has a 3" chamber (LC inside a diamond on the barrel flats so it has not had the chamber lengthened).

Regards,
kologha

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Webley Screw Grip Action [Re: kologha]
      #58133 - 01/06/06 04:08 PM

I once owned a Webley and Scott 12 gauge with a very similar action to that one pictured.
It was indeed a true screw grip and was very strong.

A very nice gun to shoot as well.



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