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NitroXAdministrator
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Best practice for cow ele hunting?
      #57049 - 13/05/06 04:52 AM

What is 'best practice' for cow elephant hunting? ie best way to practice for a brain shot on a cow elephant?

The brain is a small football sized target, but the real trick is the angle and the "x-ray" vision needed to place the shot. When looking at a deer or buffalo I can "see" the heart but not the brain on a elephant.

So what's the best way to train for an elephant brain shot?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ndumo
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #57051 - 13/05/06 05:21 AM

John
I assume you are pretty competent shooting your double. From there I would suggst get as fit as possible, you'll enjoy it more. Look at pics of elephant, trying to ID where to shoot it, starting now (you propably started this along time ago.) Discuss your shot options with your PH beforehand, preferably on dry stalks. IMO the best advice is still the old broomstick out of the earholes- break the middle rule. Also, connct the left eye with the right earhole and vice versa. The lines cross in the frontal lobe of the brain. Try and put your bullet just behind that.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
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EricD
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #57053 - 13/05/06 05:34 AM

Forget the shooting. Learn how to run! And I mean run FAST!!!

But if you insist on training with your rifle (as you know, I shot quite a few hundred rounds with my ele rifle last spring before going to Zim ), I suggest mounting relativly large targets on poles of an appropriate elephant head hight, keeping in mind that a cow is smaller/shorter than a bull, so 2 1/2 meters up should be fine, and drawing a brain sized circle in the middle. Prefferably a few of these pole mounted targets, so that you can switch back and forth between several for each reload. Such as 2 shots to the righthand target, and then 2 shots on the one 90 degrees to your lefthand as fast as you can. As for seeing the brain, I read the various books discussed here before, and watched various movies etc, but found that the best help was when I finally got down there, and spent a few days before the hunt in Mana Pools looking at elephant together with an ex-PH. And then spent several days hunting tuskless cow elephant while intentionally not shooting one, firstly to get the experiance of hunting them and sneaking in and out of herds, but also so that I could discuss elephant head anatomy with my PH. I personally feel this helped more than the pictures in the books etc., although studying the books first help create a basis to work from.

However, now that Buzz Charltons film has been released, I think it is probably a better "teacher" than all the static drawings found in the various books.

As you might recall, I made a target that was mounted on a sled, which could be dragged behind a car past me at around 35-40km/h. In some ways this was mostly for fun. But I think there was actually quite a lot of value in trying to hit the bouncing target at speed coming towards me. And will use it again next time I plan to go ele hunting.

But with all that said, I've only been on 1 elephant hunt, and am sure there are more experianced members here with more (better?) advice!

Good luck with the practice!

Erik

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shakari
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: EricD]
      #57057 - 13/05/06 06:36 AM

Here's another vote for the broomstick method..... forget the angle & size of the head etc and imagine breaking the broomstick.

Another couple of things that'll help you when you go dancing with the Zambezi ladies is to grow a third eye at the back of your head and develop a good radar system that penetrates thick bush

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (13/05/06 06:37 AM)

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: shakari]
      #57058 - 13/05/06 06:55 AM

Probable ridiculous question--

When shooting at Ele at close range do you have to compensate signifigantly for the up and down motion of their head(hold shooting until the highest point of the head elevation with gait?) or is the head target relativety stable?

Thanks for any thoughts/tips on brain shots !!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (13/05/06 06:58 AM)

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shakari
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #57084 - 13/05/06 03:40 PM

There's often some head movement but a lot depends on whether the animal is moving or not and other things. Another factor is how or whether the animal is looking at you. For example, If it has seen you and feels threatened, it may well try to make itself look bigger and will hold it's head higher and at a different angle. (kinda with it's chin tucked in). In a full out serious charge the head is held considerably lower.

Ganyana is probably the forum member best qualified to advise on this.

2 Good books to read on the subject are Mahohoba by Ron Thompson and The Perfect Shot by Kevin Robertson.

I didn't take this pic so can't claim credit but I understand the photographer is now dead and the pic is in the public domain - hence I feel I can post it - but here's a pic of an elephant in pissed off mode - note how low the head is held. From my experiences it's unusual for the ears to be that far out.... but I'd look forward to hearing Ganyana's comment about that.:-



--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (13/05/06 03:42 PM)

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: shakari]
      #57095 - 13/05/06 10:39 PM

VERY IMPRESSIVE!!

If you shoot and stop this kind of charge you will need to carry a change of clothes hunting cause the ones your wearing are going to smell of Ele snot, dust, and your own feces and urine!!

Kinda brings new meaning to the phrase-"brain'em or die!!"

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #57097 - 14/05/06 12:09 AM

The sound must be impressive when it falls.

Imagine if you capture such a charge on film.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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shakari
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #57098 - 14/05/06 12:21 AM

Well, you know what they say about the reason Elephants have their sexual organs on the base of their feet........ If they stamp on you, you're fu**ed

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #57101 - 14/05/06 12:33 AM

I have borrowed Ann's photos from her hunt video - also on Buzz Charlton's DVD - as it does illustrate the shot well.

The fourth photo shows the puff of dust on the trunk on impact.









--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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hoppdoc
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: NitroX]
      #57108 - 14/05/06 03:02 AM

From my limited reading it appears that watching for Ele cows is high priority in the Zim's jesse--

And if you shoot one you are at considerable danger of suddenly encountering a pissed off companion Ele bent on sorting you out piece by piece.

The cows supposedly are intelligent, have excellent memories, and can hold a grudge.

Seems like the Ele cows may be the most aggressive and surprisingly sneaky in the thick stuff. I have read about several PH's being killed by cows in the past. Do more PH's die from Buff encounters or Ele cow attacks?

ARE ELE COWS THE MOST AGGRESIVE DANGEROUS THREAT WHILE HUNTING IN THE JESSE? Maybe no tusks, sharp teeth,or claws but if attacked getting stomped and mangled into a greasy spot is not my prefered way to exit this world.

Hunting tuskless Ele cows-no tusks but sounds like a great kind of hunt against a very aggressive dangerous animal.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (14/05/06 03:14 AM)

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shakari
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #57113 - 14/05/06 06:42 AM

It's very difficult to quantify which is more dangerous - they're all bloody dangerous - but my guess is that "dancing with the zambezi ladies" is certainly right up there with the best of them.......

Probably the best guy to comment on fatalities in the area would be Ganyana as he has access to the official figures.

One thing's for sure...... the sight of an angry Elephant with revenge on it's mind has to be one of the most awsome sights most people will ever see..........and sometimes, the last!

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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hoppdoc
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: shakari]
      #57213 - 16/05/06 02:24 AM

It seems like the tuskless Ele would be persona non grata and signifigant efforts would be made to cull them. Their genetic defect would be a liability to the herd. Do they not tend to become ?" Tonda's " (rogue Ele)??

How much would a tuskless Ele hunt cost and/or could it be done cheaper as part of a culling operation taking out an entire group of Ele ??

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shakari
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #57217 - 16/05/06 04:50 AM

I'm afraid I don't offer cow Elephant sport hunting as I don't personally agree with it - that isn't to say I disapprove of others who do it, just that I won't do it myself. - So I can't give you prices I'm afraid.

If you do any kind of a search here, you'll find my opinions about it ad nauseum!

I'm sure others here can help you though. Alternatively, you could go to Buzz Charlton, Myles McCullum, Ian Gison, Andy Hunter, Roger Whittal or Ganyana all of whom are top class PHs in Zimbabwe and all of whom could help you with prices etc.

Let me know if you need contact details......



--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (16/05/06 05:20 AM)

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JPK
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: shakari]
      #57218 - 16/05/06 05:16 AM

Hopdoc,

There are generally no cull hunts which a sport hunter can participate in.

But a tuskless cow hunt can run from $650/day to about $1000/day plus the trophy fee which runs $2500 to $3500. In general, the daily rate goes up as the number of elephants to be hunted in a given time frame goes up and as the productivity of the area goes up. Trophy fees vary by outfit.

These are prices for this year. I understand that all, or nearly all, tuskless hunts have been sold for this year so rest assured that prices will rise next year.

If you add other premium game, dangerous or plains, to your hunt prices will go up as well.

JPK

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500grains
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: JPK]
      #57224 - 16/05/06 08:45 AM

I can't seem to remember the broomstick thing in the heat of the moment. But if the head is down, I shoot above eye level, and if the head is up I shoot below eye level.

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Charles_Helm
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: 500grains]
      #57228 - 16/05/06 11:02 AM

In reply to:

I can't seem to remember the broomstick thing in the heat of the moment. But if the head is down, I shoot above eye level, and if the head is up I shoot below eye level.



I like that system!

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

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MopaneMike
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: shakari]
      #57236 - 16/05/06 01:09 PM

Shakari,

I have seen that very same look, and yes the ear's were just as wide with the head low... Going into our concesion (Kosonso, Zambia) we were driving through another concesion as a short cut to ours ( it might even have been the edge of the Nat Park). When out of the bush literaly burst a very pissed off bull. One second I was half asleep from jet lag and the Toyota's rocking me. The next, out burst this bull screaming like only an angry bull can, piercing won't come close to how loud it was. In a full charge he came giving me a face full of snot as both he skidded to a halt and I was climbing out the other side of the Toyota and the PH guns it!!.. It was a good thing the PH floored it, not only helping to get us the hell outta there, but it made me lose my balance in the back, other wise I was well on my way out the other side of the vehicle as a natural reaction.... Unfortunatly we heard that a client was killed by a bull ele while we were there, I'm not sure if it was the same consesion and alway's wondered if it was the same bull.. From what I understand, client and PH were hunting (not ele) and walking down a narrow trail with PH in front. Bull literaly came out of no where without warning, knocking over and spinning the PH as it passed, stomping the client and kept on going... I prefer to think that it was a case of everybody being surprised including the Ele, and the bull was trying to get the hell out of there as fast as he could.. There's not a doubt in my mind, the bull we encountered literaly let us (me) go...

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MopaneMike


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shakari
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: MopaneMike]
      #57246 - 16/05/06 04:23 PM

Ganyana gave me a tip a couple of years ago that really works in these situations....... a shot to the outside of the ear (make sure you don't his too far in as you'll shoot through into the body) seems to hit 'em like a clap of thunder and will usually turn them from the charge.......

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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JPK
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: shakari]
      #57251 - 16/05/06 11:40 PM

MopaneMike,

Just imagine if you'd made it out as the PH gunned it. I can see it. Standing there as the truck speeds away, then turning and looking up!

Bad thought!

JPK

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MopaneMike
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: JPK]
      #57252 - 16/05/06 11:55 PM

Don't you know it!!... That was my second thought... First was I had to empty my bladder..

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MopaneMike


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hoppdoc
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Re: Best practice for cow ele hunting? [Re: shakari]
      #57287 - 17/05/06 09:30 PM

Spoke to hunter last night who says he took a 50 pounder bull Ele last year in Namibia--

He said the shooting of his Bull standing close to a herd was straightforward at 35 PACES with a head shot, but the aftermath was really scary--the herd ran away about 200 yards clustered up then seperated charging everywhere, all directions and he and the PH were running constantly from various cows trying to get away..He and/or the PH almost shot a cow that got too close when she cut their wind and charged by ?searching for them. Then he thought-SH*T,are they actually hunting me?? No Way!!
They waited hours then went back for the bull.

In short taking the bull was cake but the cows ?searching around really scary.The Ele had obviously been hunted before.They have no fear of man and will kill you if they can. Their poor eyesight is a blessing but their noses are fantastic.If you are unfortunate to be in the path of the wildly running Ele you are roadkill.

Oh yes. His 450 Dakota bolt will probably stay at home and a big Double go next time. He thinks working the bolt was entirely too slow for survival.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (17/05/06 09:41 PM)

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