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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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zimhunter
.333 member

Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: watto]
#81362 - 27/06/07 10:50 AM

Marrakai,
The Paradox used to take 2 female ele's in Zim was in fact a 12ga. That's all I know at this time.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
#81373 - 27/06/07 02:28 PM

Quote:

Absolutely. I still have those Shaw rifled 12-bore barrels, and was discussing this very subject (with barrels in hand!) with Vic P_ last week. There are a few unknowns with those barrels, ie rifling is only 5 thou deep, and the .719/.729 bore/groove dimensions will not allow much choke to remain if I ream the bores to .735 to fit my mold. Also, the Shaw tubes will clean up at around 24 1/2 inches which is fine for a bore-gun but too short for a 'pukka' Paradox.

I'm getting pissed off with seeing those tubes just sitting around though, and will probably do something soon. Because they are so thick at the breech ends, I'm toying with the idea of making them up with a dove-tail lump, so I can keep the original shotgun barrels. That was the main subject discussed with Vic.

Would you make up a second whole Greener "Paradox" in addition to your Greener DR .577, or make up a new set of barrels for the DR?

I think with a Greener .577 DR and a Greener "Paradox" you will be so set for NT hunting that the .400 will no longer see the light.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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empirevr
.375 member

Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
#81445 - 29/06/07 12:00 AM

Mmmmm Greener...judging from some old book i had until a fire stole it, they were the number 1 back in the days.

Always held my admiration,and always will.

They had two massive premises if i record correctly,one in London and another in Birmingham...

They made guns for use, and it seem the quality and toughness was always there.

So, 12b double rifle 2.5" what sort of fps are we talking with the various bullets guys? What was it for? Thin skinned DG?

Ben

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: empirevr]
#81491 - 29/06/07 10:22 PM

NitroX:
The problem with making up a new set of Paradox barrels for the Greener .577 is that if I ever have to sell one, I lose both.

I have 2 other Empire Greeners which I could use, one an E12-Grade with good tubes, which I'll probably just keep as a shottie, and another E17-Grade which I won at auction for cheap money because it had the chokes lopped due to muzzle damage. Who wants an eight-pound quail gun? Trouble is, it patterns rather well with US#1 Steel Shot and is a good loaner for goose shooting when I don't want a novice burning up my #2 Bismuth. Nevertheless, the E17 will get the nod.

empirevr: I have located some good data on bore-gun weights and charges, which I will post in a new thread on this forum on the weekend if I get time.

I agree that WW Greener hardware is top stuff. I don't particularly like the side-safety, but nevertheless have ended up with 5 Greener SxSs: a well-engraved TLH pigeon gun, 3 Empires, and a beautiful cased G2 game gun. Add a GP takedown and a .310 Cadet for 7 Greeners in total! Just can't seem to avoid them!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
#81516 - 30/06/07 04:14 AM

Quote:

NitroX:
The problem with making up a new set of Paradox barrels for the Greener .577 is that if I ever have to sell one, I lose both.

I was only joking. I was going to suggest I could take it off your hands.

Quote:

I have 2 other Empire Greeners which I could use, one an E12-Grade with good tubes, which I'll probably just keep as a shottie, and another E17-Grade ...

How do you tell which model they are? Is the model identified in some way. I will have to look at mine to see what it is.

Quote:

I don't particularly like the side-safety ...

You are not the only one. Not a particularly good place to place a safety if one needs to take the safety off in a fast manner.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
#81571 - 01/07/07 08:28 AM

I'll look out for that Marrakai.

I spoke to the present Greener via phone about ooh, 5 years ago.....

Very nice chap.

If i was having a double made i would choose a Greener, they just seem right somehow...

Ben

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: empirevr]
#81578 - 01/07/07 11:00 AM

Slight hijack here, but worth mentioning:
It is easy to improve the Greener side safety for 'safer' performance on a potential DG rifle.

As produced by William Wellington, the safety is probably quite OK for a shotgun, but once the checkering gets worn a little smooth, and we add some sweat or slippery blood, that thing becomes very difficult to operate, and on a DG double could get you killed.

Here is a 'before and after' photo of the modification done to my Greener .577 by Rolph Bachnik, long before I acquired it I might add. It works perfectly and I would certainly have this done to any Greener DR or bore-gun conversion in the future. Being non-automatic already is a bonus too.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
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Loc: England,but now Italy.

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
#81620 - 02/07/07 04:14 AM

Nice gun there Tony.

What do you reckon on the other 577's? 3" and 3.1/4" ???

Thanks

Ben

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
#81652 - 02/07/07 02:12 PM

Quote:

It is easy to improve the Greener side safety for 'safer' performance on a potential DG rifle.

...

Here is a 'before and after' photo of the modification done to my Greener .577 by Rolph Bachnik, long before I acquired it I might add. It works perfectly and I would certainly have this done to any Greener DR or bore-gun conversion in the future. Being non-automatic already is a bonus too.

Thanks for that Marrakai. A worthwhile change to consider on a modified Greener.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: NitroX]
#81905 - 05/07/07 11:39 PM

Missed a couple of things here, sorry.

Watto:
Not sure who to recommend for making up a Paradox these days. Down your way, maybe Bill Swann would be worth approaching, and a bloke called Larry Ch_ in South Oz, if you know who I'm talking about. Also, Rolph Bachnick is still around I believe, maybe trading as Safari Arms? (Anybody...?)

John:
The grade is engraved on the trigger-guard tang near the serial number.

Ben:
Regarding the lengths of the other .577 cartridges, longer brass is just an embuggerance as the ballistics are the same but with modern nitro powders, you burn a bit more for the same velocity, and a ridiculous stack of wads or filler is required. Sure, pressure might be a bit lower, but we are only talking 7.5 to 8 tons for the 2 3/4 inch case anyway, so no problem to solve IMHO.

There's always the possibility, however remote, of a full nitro cartridge being fired in a 3-inch or 3 1/4 chamber, far less risk with the 2 3/4.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member

Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia

Re: PARADOX SITE [Re: Marrakai]
#81947 - 06/07/07 09:41 PM

This mould came with a Holland and Holland SXS Paradox.
Solids weigh 860gns.
Hollow points weigh 810 gns .

PS-The mould is for a 12 bore paradox by H&H.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

Edited by ALAN_MCKENZIE (07/07/07 06:09 PM)

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