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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39881
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Location of Lion prides
      #54818 - 14/04/06 03:33 PM

I was watching a documentary about lions in Tanzania last weekend and the wildlife researchers seemed to indicate they knew the rough approximate location of a pride from on week to the next.

This led me to thinking, IF this is so, should not an outfitter offering lions as trophies also have a fair idea of where to locate a pride? Also given the fact lion safaris in TZ are not cheap and there are game-guards in the bush to assist with the locating of a pride.

Are male lions resident in a pride hunted, or is it preferred to hunt the more solitary males?

Does the terrain make a big difference in 'knowing' the location of a pride, ie bush vs more open plains?

Are the documentaries fantasising when the claim to know the location of a pride at any length of time?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: NitroX]
      #54827 - 14/04/06 04:59 PM

I'll address the last question first - Yes, they are fantasising if they claim to always know exactly where to find Lions. They would probably know the "Liony" areas but not exactly where they are from one day to the next..........

Usual game management practices would dictate that one shouldn't usually take a male out of a pride but this is often easier said than done. In reality, individual males sometimes wander away from the pride (presumably?) to get some peace and quiet. Then it can be difficult to be absolutely certain if this animal is now a pride holder or not.

There's also a very good argument that one can take males out of a pride on a rolling basis...... might be better put by saying (for example) that if 2 males are holding a pride but are getting past it, and if there are no (or few) young cubs in that pride and perhaps one or more younger males waiting in the wings then that might be a good time to let clients take the 2 old males and let the younger males in......

Then there's also the scenario where a male is holding a pride but is a problem animal or even an entire problem pride.... then one needs to make other decisions. I had this happen to me last year when I arrived in camp to find an entire pride had gotten into the habit of walking through the camp every night roaring like hell and trying to scare someone into making a dash out of their tent and join them for dinner....... This went on every night, all night. (Mama Shakari gave me no end of shit about the situation!) So one has to weigh up whether to shoot a Lion or two to protect the clients and staff of take a chance the Lions will bugger off elsewhere. Once Lions or other predators get into a habit like this, it can be difficult to break them of it......esp if drought or other conditions might mean they're struggling to survive.

As with most things in Africa, there are no clear cut answers. One needs to judge each case on its own merits.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (14/04/06 07:18 PM)

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ALF
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Reged: 21/11/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Out of Africa
Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: shakari]
      #54867 - 15/04/06 05:19 AM

The short answer is yes...... but with provision.

Lion are highly territorial but the size of their range is specific area dependent. Ie depending on where ( location in terms of country or eco zone the size of the territories will vary)

Based on this then Scientists who study lion specifically are able to locate and monitor movement with astounding accuracy, especially in high concentration areas. Much more so than PH's who rely more on chance encounters than anything else.

As a student at varsity I hung with guys who studied Wildlife management at Pretoria Univeristy on post graduate basis and based on the particular course director at that time all had something to do with the study and movement of the large cats of Africa.

We have lion on our ranch and based on their perculiar territorial behaviour our game guides are able to locate them on any given day. Sometimes it may take a day or so but on most occasions they seem to know where they hang.

Study areas such as the Kruger, Botswana and parts of Tanzania are so well studied that the range areas are actually mapped and individuals within prides are known by name and number. I have had friends who have lived in the bush for periods of up to 3 years tracking specific prides and recording their daily acitivities an a log. Even the Illusive Leopard is studied in this manner.

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
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Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: ALF]
      #54912 - 15/04/06 03:38 PM

Hmmm, maybe my first post was a little too pat. Alf certainly has a good point that a study group will have a lot more time to learn the habits of a particular animal or group of animals.

Come to that, Kim Wolhuter, for example knows his Leopards so well he can find them pretty much anytime he wants..... but he's been studying the individual animals for years and they know him and his vehicle and ignore them.......

I suppose there's also a geographical factor involved as well when I think about it. Lions in an area such as KNP or Serengeti will be a lot more habituated to vehicles etc than Lions in a hunting area in the Selous for example. Habituated Lions will be a lot more casual about a vehicle in their area than non-habituated Lions who will hear a vehicle and be more inclined to either bug out or hide.

Then I suppose there's also the human factor. In the same way one tracker will lose an animal after a mile another one will stay on the spoor forever and the same could be said of game rangers, scientists or study groups etc....... And we haven't even considered radio collars!

On reflection, I guess a lot of it is that it's yet another example of where Africa is concerned, one should never say never and never say always........



--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
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Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: shakari]
      #54917 - 15/04/06 06:18 PM

Just for fun, here's a pic of the camp raider I mentioned in my first post....

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (16/04/06 04:18 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: shakari]
      #54933 - 16/04/06 01:36 AM

OK it was mentioned that hunting outfitters may try not to kill the pride lion(s). I can understand that as a new pride male will kill all the cubs. But how does an outfitter avoid this? Perhaps by not allowing a client to take a male if it is present with a pride of females?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: NitroX]
      #54934 - 16/04/06 01:41 AM

That and a degree of local knowledge are about it John.... but it's sometimes possible to take an old male or males out of a pride if you're sure there are no small cubs in the pride. - Then you just let another one take over and the adolescents will move off to become nomadic until it's their turn to move in and take over for a while.

I guess another way to tell if a lone male is holding a pride is if he looks like he's been nagged a lot!!!!

Going back to that Lion in my pic - it looks a bit big...... hope I haven't caused a bandwidth problem..... if I have, please let me know and I'll reduce it. Guess I should have mentioned that third eye is courtesy of my .500 Jeffery. (the client asked me to put in an insurance shot as it was so close to camp..... well, in it actually!)



--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (16/04/06 07:18 AM)

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LGF
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Reged: 27/04/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Kenya/Berkeley, CA
Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: NitroX]
      #54937 - 16/04/06 03:28 AM

It depends a lot on the individual pride in question. I work on lions in Kenya, and we have some prides which very predictably spend the day in certain areas. Others move more widely, and although they may hangout ina certain area for a few days, one cannot predict where they might be on any given day. Of course, all have their territories, and rarely if ever move beyond them. Radiotracking shows that pride males often seem to have smaller home ranges than their females. Young nomadic males, as the name suggests, move widely, but will settle into a certain area for a while, then move on until they are able to take over a pride.

Edited by LGF (16/04/06 03:31 AM)

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FMA
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Reged: 15/04/06
Posts: 12
Loc: NYC
Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: LGF]
      #54942 - 16/04/06 06:51 AM

LGF:

How are you? It's your favorite southern NY'er. JB make it your way yet? Just saw some ugly pics from Dallas. Heading over to Mugie in later June. Will you be around?

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LGF
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Reged: 27/04/05
Posts: 76
Loc: Kenya/Berkeley, CA
Re: Location of Lion prides [Re: FMA]
      #55071 - 18/04/06 03:09 AM

FMA-

Will be here until June 24. Had a great day on Mugie last week. Learned two things:

1) Don't try to notch a lion's ear after injecting the reversal drug;

2) Don't wear sunglasses on a buffalo hunt.

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