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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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ARRA
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Reged: 18/09/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Riverina,NSW,AUST
Sensible Sambar Rifle
      #5345 - 02/12/03 10:14 AM

After finding a herd of fallow doe's and signs of a buck on a farm that I hunt,I have well and truly been bitten by the dear bug.Cant wait untill the rut !
Problem is a few mates hunt sambar in Vic and have asked me to come but the 6.5x55 wont cut it legaly and I would like your opinion on the next step up . I have an option on a Tikka M65 338WM . Has any body have one or used one ?
Any info would help as I have had litte exeperience with larger calibers.

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: ARRA]
      #5357 - 03/12/03 06:28 AM

My advice is to not jump into the deep end and purchase a "too big" calibre if you are not really experienced with the bigger thumpers,i know some that cant handle 338`s (yep) i would go down a peg or two and try out the 30.06, 7mm mag options maybe 35 whelan.......far more flexibility with the first two for game in Aus

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: ARRA]
      #5367 - 03/12/03 10:49 PM

I would definitely defer to Gryphon on any advice on sambar.

But if you can handle a .338 go for it. If you can shoot one first try it. There is no reason a .308 or .30-06 won't do the job though. When I first shot my .30-06 I didn't like the recoil. Recoil tolerance is an accumulative experience for many people. Shoot it but not from a bench and see what your 'next' calibre is like.

A .338 has to be one of the most versatile calibres for hunting almost anything around the world. And is a good addition to your 6.5mm.

Good luck on the fallow's next season too.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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470Nitro
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Reged: 17/09/03
Posts: 467
Loc: Madrid - Spain
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: ARRA]
      #5370 - 03/12/03 11:30 PM

I'd hunted several fallow deers with my 6.5x57R and also with a 6 mm. Remington with excellents results. Now I use to stalk red deers with a 7 mm. Remington Magnum and no one needed more than one shot .
I don't know exactly how big is a Sambar but I think isn't bigger than our deers.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: 470Nitro]
      #5376 - 04/12/03 12:40 AM

470

Sambar deer are bigger than red deer and can weigh up to 660 lbs in Australia. They are the next biggest deer after moose and wapiti (elk).

One reason some hunters choose a heavier calibre is they are usually hunted in thick bush and often a running shot is called for. Also as us mere mortal sambar trophy hunters may hunt for a lifetime for a single good stag, hunters may want extra insurance to drop it with whatever shot opportunity allows and want a heavy for calibre round nose projectile if brush happens to get in the way.

Unlike 7mm Rem Mag Gryphon and his many sambar stags. Check out his photos.

Personally I have always taken a .30-06 and probably next time my .308 BLR as they weigh less and are easier carrying.



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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #5380 - 04/12/03 02:30 AM

Sambar deer are bigger than red deer and can weigh up to 660 lbs in Australia. They are the next biggest deer after moose and wapiti (elk).

How much is that in Kilos?

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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470Nitro
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Reged: 17/09/03
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: mickey]
      #5382 - 04/12/03 04:45 AM

1 lb = 0.4536 Kgs. so 660 lbs are "only" 299.38 Kgs. a little bit more than a big red deer (usually here are about 200 Kilos.). Anyway is not a bad idea to use a .338 Win.

--------------------
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talkin' 'bout guns and dreamin 'bout women
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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: 470Nitro]
      #5384 - 04/12/03 06:29 AM

The biggest red i have seen have been stud stags on a deer farm i used to help out on, they were far bigger than the wild red stags i have seen but fall a long way back in size to the biggest sambar stags i have seen,we weighed a few over the years and they probably averaged 500 plus pounds but there were a couple that taking everything into consideration that would have gone over the 700 pound mark and boy are they big when you have to get them out of the bush!
Back to the original post,i still say start off smaller and grow into the bigger cals.

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ARRA
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Reged: 18/09/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Riverina,NSW,AUST
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #5391 - 04/12/03 02:41 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys,much appreciated.
I get on really well with a local dealer that let me take the Tikka out for a try. I shot two groups of three 225gn factory loads offhand at 100m into about 150mm groups .The rifle has a 22 barrel on it and i was surprised how manageable the recoil was in such a light rifle .I think it is called a M65 Light Trapper and has a Pecar 3-7x35 .It handles very well and I think it would be a pretty handy rifle in thick scrub.
The dealer also has a 300win mag that I am going to try next .After looking at your web page Gryphon, I will try to find a 7mm rem mag to shoot as well.Great web page by the way .
I never like to rush things when it comes parting with cash and can see that I will have to do a bit more research.


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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: ARRA]
      #5392 - 04/12/03 03:01 PM

WHAT PART OF THE R/INA YOU FROM ARRA? OLD HUNTING AREAS THERE FOR ME AROUND DENNY,WANGANELLA, HAY ETC THOUGHT YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT IN THE PIG COUNTRY EVEN THOUGH THESE DAYS THEY TAKE A REAL HAMMERING AND ITS MUCH HARDER TO GET ON FOR A HUNT.

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #5393 - 04/12/03 03:06 PM

Arra i forgot to mention a mate just traded his 7mm in Ruger s/less for a new Tikka in 7mm and he is very happy with it it too,he nailed a stag last year and is happy with his 7mm........bought before i knew him to persuade him to buy that cal that is.If you have a pig joint to trade hunts i will get you a poke at a sambar mate..no probs! all you have to do is be able to walk a long way basically...in very steep thickly bushed hill country that is lol.

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ARRA
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Reged: 18/09/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Riverina,NSW,AUST
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #5399 - 04/12/03 07:40 PM

Gryphon,
I bet you've had a few beers off the wood of the Conargo Pub bar then. I have a workshop in Wagga and live 20k's north of the river.
We did a lot of pig and goat culling when we were young blokes(mid 20s) north west of Condo(Bobadah,Nymagee,Nangeryborne,Tottenham areas)about 10 years + ago and have lost contact with people, but have been talking to a couple of customers from the Mossgiel area
who tell me the drought has taken its toll on the pigs.I will get up there and check things out when I here the numbers are coming back.
I normally hunt south east of here and have shot pigs there but they are rare.I have seen fallow and red deer but have only got interested in them this year after building up my 6.5 last year .I figured the 17rem and 223 were a bit light on.
Walking is the best way to go ,but we cant compare it to your sambar country .Use to do a bit of bushwalking in the Vic Alps but have done a shit load of 4WDing down there so I know some of the localitys(thats a metric shit load of 4WDing .Is that bigger than a imp shit load ?)
Where abouts are you .

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gryphon
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: ARRA]
      #5408 - 05/12/03 08:03 AM

I`m an IMP shit load of miles from home (Vic) about a 1000 north of melb on the Gold coast in Qld now and only get down to Vic for sambar a couple of times a year for now,but we do pretty bloody good in our limited time so all those years of rprevious experience hold me in good stead.

We hammered the hogs around Hay Booligal Wakool etc with an occasional look up at Tilpa + Mossgiel too,i have caught pigs also in Qld but now just about concentrate on the mighty sambar.
The conargo pub? sorry to say i have been past it many times but never been in at all....too keen on hunting to stop and drink beer,though we always had an esky for after dark delights by the fire.
What parts of tha V/Alps you travelled as you would have driven through heaps of good deer country>

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PeteE
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Reged: 23/08/03
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #5564 - 10/12/03 08:29 AM

I know bugger all about Sambar except that they are big! While I have no doubt the 30-06 and various 7mm will work, have you considered a 9.3x62? It is an excellent round which would cope with anything you might want to hunt in Oz as far as big game goes. You can get it in a CZ550 American at a very reasonable price and i bet it would have better felt recoil than that 338 Tikka too..,.

Regards,

Pete

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: PeteE]
      #5565 - 10/12/03 08:35 AM

for fellas that are used to more moderate rounds the 9.3 can boot a bit too

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: PeteE]
      #5567 - 10/12/03 10:13 AM

Pete

You have hit the best round for Sambar IMO on the head.

In a properly stocked rifle a 9.3x62 would have to make the ideal brush calibre for big deer and with heavier RN bullets as good 'brush bucking' ability as you could hope for. In a nice lightly stocked rifle, more for carrying than shooting, it would be a much better idea than a heavy .375 which some people carrying. But if the recoil is too much, obviously the .30s are fine too.

The 9.3x62 is such a no nonsense round but so effective.

Actually I have at least two friends who use either the 9.3x62 or 9.3x64 rounds for sambar. The 9.3x64 does have a markedly heavier recoil however.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ARRA
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Reged: 18/09/03
Posts: 47
Loc: Riverina,NSW,AUST
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #5719 - 15/12/03 07:19 PM

Gryphon
Been into the Wonnangatta area about half a dozen times.Did the 20 odd crossings of the Crooked river one nite when it was up to the bonnet of the Hilux.I had a new girlfrend with me that had never been on a 4WD trip before.That relationship didn't last long!
Dargo,Licola,Jamieson,bushwalked around Mt Howitt area,Lake William Hovell,Eildon,Benambra and Suggan Buggan,also know people that have just moved to the Buchan area and hope to go down that way soon.
I have been thinking hard about the 338 Tikka that I can buy very right,can you tell me is the 7mm case a necked down 338 case and if so, should it just be a matter of rebarreling the thing if I cant stand the recoil.I thought with all your experience with the 7mm you might know.

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gryphon
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: ARRA]
      #5728 - 16/12/03 06:15 AM

Arra the 7 mm the 338 and 308 norma mag are all basically the same case...........dont know why you would bother buying a 338 when you seem to already have doubts about its recoil....the 7mm mag puts em down in thick bush or any open country you have....people talk about fast cartridges being "not so good" in thick bush, well! i have never had a problem and i have downed a couple and cant see in any of those hunt scenario`s where a "bigger is better" would have done any bloody better at all.......dead is dead to me,yep heard all the stories about this and that but believe me a sensible sambar hunter DOES NOT need anything much bigger really than the `06 7mm 270 class and i still say a 338 is not for a new chum deer hunter ........why risk the big one apon jumping up after all that hunting only to be put off by the hidden thoughts in the recesses of the brain of (this thing bucks) if you are not used to it?Ah yes some may say but when the game appears all such thoughts are gone! Ah not so for some!
Mate confessed after a few years that the reason he was going to `06 was that his 308 Norma mag was starting to get on his nerves...his hunting suffered but he has knocked 3 or 4 bulls since..it does happen even on Nitro express forums hahaha.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: gryphon]
      #34726 - 16/07/05 02:32 PM

BTTT

Because it was an interesting discussion.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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robe280
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Reged: 24/06/05
Posts: 6
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #34811 - 18/07/05 05:06 PM

I agree with gryphon that the most important aspect of a SAmbar cartridge is that you shoot it well. so if that means 3006 as appossed to 338 win mag then so be it.
The last and my only sambar was shot with a 3030. I was not impressed with the killing power even though I shot it in the spine just behind the shoulder blades as it walked in the gully below me. I have a 7mm deer rifle now and although I shoot a few reds and fallows I am researching for a Sambar rifle. Sambar deer don't give up the way red's just seem to fall over and lay there. They keep kicking and going even if this is only the front half. The 3030 bullet did not exit the spine. If I had missed by an inch it would have still died as the bullet would have hit the lungs but tracking in that thick country would have been a real issue.
My 2 cents is you have already fired the 338. If it wasn't unpleasant buy it for the RIGHT price then after practicing offhand with a hundred or so rounds it should be fine. When recommending a pure sambar round I think 35 whelan and up. If you finally cross paths with a Sambar you want an exit hole and preferably it to drop on the spot. You already have a deer cartridge may as well take a real step up.

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mlg
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Re: Sensible Sambar Rifle [Re: robe280]
      #37731 - 18/09/05 04:32 AM

Another interesting caliber which would be very suitable on Sambar is the 325wsm (8mm short) which is soon to be released here in Australia if it has not already. I see in the latest shooters journel that Nioa are advertising Kimber rifles in that caliber. Very nice rifles.



Edited by mlg (18/09/05 04:33 AM)

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