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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

12 bore super magnum paradox
#53177 - 23/03/06 05:54 PM

I'm looking at a 12 bore William Evans paradox gun and was wondering if anyone has done any load development for a gun of this type. Wright's book addresses the milder version but not this one. The guns is proofed for 47 grains of cordite and 735 grain bullet. Sure looks fun.
Thanks,
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: bouldersmith]
#53181 - 23/03/06 06:05 PM

bouldersmith

Can you give more details of the gun ?

I sold a William Evans 12 bore Super Magnum Explora (Paradox)
Sidelock Ejector last year so have access to load data etc.

I will check if I still have the info on the gun
but I think it was proofed for the same figures.

The current owner may also be able to help me with this as well.

What gun are you looking at ? Is it a Sidelock with really neat (as in well done)\
game scene engraving on the locks and floorplate ?

500 Nitro

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: 500Nitro]
#53192 - 24/03/06 12:06 AM

.500 nitro,
This gun is a boxlock, in as close to new original condition as you could imagine. It is one of 17 made for the maharaja of Kohto in 1926. The gun resides in a huge 2 gun case. Its an interesting piece to say the least. The current owner has never shot the gun. I'm thinking this would be a fine addition to the safe.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: bouldersmith]
#53215 - 24/03/06 05:48 AM

If it's in that condition, go for it.

500 Nitro

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JohnTheGreek
.300 member

Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: bouldersmith]
#53217 - 24/03/06 07:56 AM

"It is one of 17 made for the maharaja of Kohto in 1926"

I don't know about you guys but I was definitely born too late...and on the wrong continent....and into the wrong socioeconomic class.

Best,

John

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: bouldersmith]
#53251 - 25/03/06 02:42 AM

Super magnum exploras were designed and regulated to shoot the cartridge of the same name. The cartridge featured an elongated paradox style bullet with a hollow cone shaped tip designed by Leslie Taylor. Inorder to get the utmost in performance from these guns the cartridge system needs to be recreated.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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pwm
.300 member

Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: gatsby]
#53261 - 25/03/06 05:58 AM

IIRC the super magnums use a 2,75" case, brass in this length is available in russia. similar to brasilian magtech shotgun brass but very heavy.

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prof242
.275 member

Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Colorado, USA

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: pwm]
#53339 - 26/03/06 02:45 PM

Do you know of anyone in the U.S. that is handling this brass? If not, who might I go to to get some? I'm trying to build what is known as a PMDR (poor man's double rifle) on a side-by-side that is strong, but no where near a collector's item. It has 3" chambers, so the 2-3/4" heavy brass case seems to be a natural for it.

--------------------
Politically correct = morally wrong

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: prof242]
#53342 - 26/03/06 03:08 PM

prof242

May I suggest you try to build a Light Nitro 577 2 3/4
or a 12 bore 2 3/4 as it will save you alot of grief trying
to get components and both have been done before many
times so you know the parameters.

Both of the above will more than flatten most game on the
planet.

500 Nitro

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pwm
.300 member

Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: prof242]
#53366 - 27/03/06 04:44 AM

I dont know any company outside of russia selling the 2,75" Tula shotgun brass. We see it here in germany allways as collectors stuff. I have talk with the russians on the IWA in Nürnberg( second biggest show after the shot show in america) when they hade sample of this brass on the stand.
There is a guy , Geno, on the double gun forum from russia, try to contact him if he can made this deal for you and send a box.

http://gunshop.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile;u=00000303

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: bouldersmith]
#53379 - 27/03/06 10:39 AM

Bouldersmith,
If you do not intend to pursue, Let me know as I am interested.
Thanks - John

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: jaz]
#53414 - 28/03/06 02:36 AM

I thought I had a deal worked. He set the price. I agreed and he was willing to give me a little time. Before the deal was complete, he decided to keep the gun. It's his, so he can do with it as he pleases, but I surely would love to own this one.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: 500Nitro]
#55372 - 21/04/06 10:40 AM

500 nitro,
Well it looks like deal is back on. Its a very neat gun. Number 4 in the set. I don't belive its ever been fired. I'll fix that! The gun resides in a huge 2 gun case. It's a box lock with intercepting sears and ejectors. The top tang is extended over the comb. The engraving is typical scroll....nothing special at all. The number 4 is stamped crudely over the engraving, but oh well. I'm excited to say the least. Were you able to find any info on loading for the old girl? As soon as the deal is complete I'll post pics. It might take a little bit to pay this one off. Its wonderful to have good friends with great guns. If not for his generosity, it would not be possible for me. I'm pretty damn lucky.
Steve

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: bouldersmith]
#55413 - 22/04/06 01:26 AM

This company makes the traditional Paradox type slugs. You could talk to them.

This must be a really fine gun and Kota (as it is spelled now) in Rajasthan is an area where some of the huge tiger reserves are located. Your gun must be a fine iece that took tigers when the Maharaja owned it.

Do post pictures of it here and thanks in advance for them!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: mehulkamdar]
#55504 - 23/04/06 12:42 AM

Congrats on the Evans! Whatever you do, DO NOT shoot the slugs as recommended from Dixie! Those bullets are heat treated and can destroy your barrels. Paradox and Explora bullets were made specifically as 15 or 16 to 1. I have several of these type guns and they all shoot softer bullets. The Super Magnum is by far the most sophisticated and difficult to load for. Be sure to read Ross's latest article in the DGJ, you will love it. Ross is keeping the loading data secret, but there are those of us out there developing bullets and loads on our own. Check with Gatsby who replied earlier to you, my friend and fellow Paradox collector. He is an expert on the Super Magnum.
JZ

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: mehulkamdar]
#55514 - 23/04/06 02:18 AM

mehulkamdar

I have to agree with jaz. The slugs made the Dixie are NOT the
traditional "Cotton Reel" Paradox Lead projectiles.

500 Nitro

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: 12 bore super magnum paradox [Re: 500Nitro]
#55690 - 25/04/06 03:19 PM

jaz/500 Nitro,

Thanks for the correction.

BTW this may be a most impractical suggestion but the Indian government owned Indian Ordnance Factory makes 12 bore ball - I have used it on pigs and it works very well. No idea what the "ball" inside is like - at In Rs 50 or more a round when I checked last, it was too expensive to pull apart. That said, knowing the primitive tech used, it might well be a pre war design left behind by the British.

Some of the Indian members might want to correct me on this if I am wrong or to provide more information. Thanks,

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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