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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!!
      #51608 - 06/03/06 10:52 AM

Double Discipline suggests we need to know the approximate distance to start shooting at charging DG.If we can practice stopping charges then we can be better prepared to deal with that possible crisis.Is there data out there on how fast a practiced shooter with a big double can shoot 2 aimed shoots??

If the charging animal comes at 30 mph then he is coming at about 45ft/sec or 15 yds/sec.If you have one shot from your big Double left I guess you had better shooting at the 15 yd mark or shortly thereafter.

If you have 2 shots available and you can shoot aimed shots with both barrels in about 2 seconds then theoretically you should shoot the first round at 30 yds.


What is the experience and suggestion of this forum from members and PH's on shot timing? Too late and you are Dead, too early and you only have one effective shot keeping you from a nightmare of a death and out of the morgue.

Any thoughts, suggestions, rebuttal, or pearls to learn here? Is this timing thing unable to be practiced and only learned by experience or what?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51628 - 06/03/06 03:12 PM

I find the idea of needing to shoot at all at 30 yards a bit silly. A genuine charge, as contrasted with a mock charge, from buff or ele is unlikely to start at 30 yards or more. Most likely it will happen at 20 yards or less. If I had only one shot, I would hold it until 5 yards. If I had 2 shots, I would shoot one at 15 yards and hope like hell I could bring the sights back on target for a 2nd shot at 5 yards.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: 500grains]
      #51638 - 06/03/06 08:01 PM

Remember that if your first barrel precipitated the charge, then you only have one barrel left anyway. Never been charged by a buff, but if I had time to think about it, I'd agree with 500grains: CLOSE and CLOSER !!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: Marrakai]
      #51652 - 06/03/06 11:01 PM

What does the popular (infamous) PH Mark "Black Death" ?Sullivan practice with his 600NE? Does he shoot just one shot or two?

I have not seen his video's.



--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51654 - 07/03/06 12:37 AM

Forget about distance in yards.
If an animal is coming at you fast from short distance you should not be worrying about things like, is he close enough, is he too far, should I shoot yet, or should I wait a bit, if I shoot now I might have time for the second barrel etc etc!!!
You need total confidence in the reliability of your double and also the cartridges loaded in the chambers.
You also need 100 percent gunfit for precise snap shooting without seeing any sights.
Then you need confidence in your ability to use that rifle and to time your shot to give you the best chance of a good solid hit in a vital area of the charging animal.
Just my 2 cents.


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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51655 - 07/03/06 12:42 AM

I'm not into the "I let the animal decide how he wants to die" BS. Never the less, MS seems to have learned how best to stand a charge.

He waits til the animal is close. Because the scenes I have seen are on dvd and this really effects the perspective and distorts range I'm not sure how far out he is shooitng his first barrel, but for sure it is close.

In several scenes he needs his second barrel. He gets back on target vary quickly. On thing that I noticed is that he "always" gets back on target quickly, even if the animal is tits up. Seems he is practicing for the next time when he might need that second barrel. He is frequently shooting a whole lotta gun, so it seems that you can learn to bring the gun back down and align the sites quickly if you train for it.

JPK

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: JPK]
      #51656 - 07/03/06 12:56 AM


I agree.

You have to have total confidence in your rifle, ammo and ability
and hopefully you have practised beforehand.

Snap shooting at close range is where you know your gun fits
as you shouldn't even be sighting the gun - IMHO, a good double "points' like a good Shotgun.

I fired once at a Buff that was going to charge at 50 - 60 yards
as it gave me the opportunity before charging. The other one started
at 40 yards and I waited until it got to 15 yards as I only had a
bolt action 338 so wanted to make sure I hit her.

Shoot when it feels right !

500 Nitro

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #51662 - 07/03/06 02:06 AM

With respect to practice, I practice a drill where a line is tied from the back of a vehicle to a 5 gallon plastic oil pail. The action begins at about 20 yards as the vehicle accelerates away, and you try to hit the pail as it jumps and rolls towards you. This trains you to quickly manipulate the bolt of a rifle (if you are so armed) from the shoulder. It also demonstrates you that you are very prone to shooting where the target was - not where it is.

Mark Sullivan doesn't need me as his spokesman, but his logic for waiting seems to be that although moving there is less chance to miss the animal at very close range. Over the years he has had the opportunity to refine this technique to a degree which most of us would be unable or unwilling to intentionally emulate.

--------------------

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: Boomer]
      #51663 - 07/03/06 02:10 AM


Mark Sullivan also often uses big bores (.50" and up)
and it is well known that 500 Nitro's and above and
especially 600 Nitro's will "stun" the animal even if it
misses the brain, therefore that may give him a bit more time
for the 2nd shot.

The same can't be said for 470 and below.

500 Nitro

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: JPK]
      #51669 - 07/03/06 03:34 AM

With regards to MS's shooting his .600, I went to my copy of MS's "Death and Double Rifles" and am posting his words for your edification:

Page 102:

"On stationary targets, one must never anticipate recoil or yank on the trigger. Rather one must feel the trigger, almost to the point of being able to feel the sear disengage and the hammer fall. This is called trigger control. If one does not have trigger control, one can never be a good shot. Even with the massice recoil of my .600, I must have trigger control. I must be able to feel the sear disengage. Admittedly, it take practise, but even more, it takes desire to master it."

On page 28-29:

"The buffalo charge in Death on the Run is a good example of what I mean. It is all there for everyone to see. The bull charges at a measured 25 yards away. He is totally committed to killing me. The stage is set. I wait. My .600 Nitro Express double rifle is up and ready, but still I wait. Yes, I could have shot him when he first began his charge, but I did not. I could have banged him when he was lying on the groud, but I did not. Why? BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE WRONG THING TO DO! When he was about nine feet away, I took the shot. My shot, however, did not kill him. It knocked him to the ground at my feet allowing me time to kill him with the second shot that I held in reserve exactly for that purpose. Though it may appear I was not in control, I was. You can bet on it."

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: Marrakai]
      #51689 - 07/03/06 07:56 AM

Great shot!

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: KILL or BE KILLED Double Shots!! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #51691 - 07/03/06 08:58 AM

Just shoot it!

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