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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Doubles-Over-rated??
      #51488 - 05/03/06 08:15 AM

My hunting Bud-call him Buffalo Bob is razzing me about my Double --

Rich mans toy, overrated, too heavy to carry,poor accuracy past rock throwing range,too slow to reload,antique,not modern.He says a bolts just fine and thats why you you have a PH-- to get you out of close range trouble.

I challenged ole BB to a 25 yd 2 shot timed target shoot at a wrecked car door with a 6 pack to the winner but he won't agree unless its at 50.I may do it anyway.

If we hunt Africa together that ole double may end up backing him up!!

Any African bolt gun stories to enlighten ole Bob with ??



--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (05/03/06 08:17 AM)

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51491 - 05/03/06 08:52 AM

Doubles are very overrated. Send me yours and I'll find a nice strong Arisaka for you.

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banzaibird
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: Peterb]
      #51492 - 05/03/06 09:14 AM

Sounds like Buffalo Bob is a bit envious . Don't worry about him and by all means take the challenge even at 50. Just to make it fair make sure he knows he has to use an equal ballistically to your double. I'd even be tempted one going 4 shots if he's shooting 458 mag. Depending on the gun he might have to reload as well.

BB

Though if there are any takers for PeterB's thoughts please include me in the snd to list .

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: banzaibird]
      #51501 - 05/03/06 10:15 AM

You ought to have him shoot with open sights also.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: banzaibird]
      #51504 - 05/03/06 10:23 AM

A bolt against double contest could really be fun!

What scoped bolt action has recoil similar to a 11 pound Merkel 470NE? If I find a bolt with similar recoil the timed 2 shot target contest is ON!! A 35 yard distance seems reasonable.

Nope, no scoped pet 270 deer rig against a big double.How much recoil would equalize the rifles?

I have a friend with a 30-378 WBY.I could remove the muzzle brake.THAT would definitely get his attention.

What bolt has closer/similar recoil? A 9 pound 416 Rem, or a 7.5 pound 458 Win 70(without its muzzle break)?

Any specific rifle suggestions?



--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51505 - 05/03/06 10:34 AM

My 8lb. .458 2" with 510gr. Winchesters clocking 2,059fps used to give me a nose bleed after 3 rounds off the bench. My new and much more powerful .458 Alaskan M70, at 100lb is much nicer to shoot. Off hand, the 2" wasn't too bad, but lots of climb and quite slow for the second shot. I'd expect he should be shooting equal recoil poundage - perhaps a 9.5lb. .458 with top-end loads might be the same. Any .458 should be shooting the same vel with the same bullet weight- that would even the score.
: Telesopic sights may or may not be helpful- even at 50yds., I'd compete against scopes with good irons on equal terms.
: One must show the double's advantage, fast shooting times with excellent pointing ability.
: This 'test' would be a great reason to practise - for both of you..

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: DarylS]
      #51508 - 05/03/06 11:01 AM

Don't tell your bud about the African Hunter Magazine article about how they thought that DR shooters would need a hadi cap in the timed events - then found out that they did't - then found out that the DR guys were always winning,

Find it here : http://www.african-hunter.com

And yes you can always trust your PH to pull your fat out of the fire right up til he can't because of the tree in his way or he blows the shot or his rifle is empty or...

JPK

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: DarylS]
      #51509 - 05/03/06 11:02 AM

I would say the standard 9.5 lb M70 458 would be good. Especially if you use iron sights as the factory Winchester irons are near worthless. If he is going to be using factory ammo make him use Hornady. It is the fastest 458 ammo I have seen.

No matter what bolt action he uses, as long as it is a big bore, I highly doubt he can beat a DR in timed shooting at 50yards. Good Luck.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: bulldog563]
      #51511 - 05/03/06 11:07 AM

Bob needs serious education in firearms. Most doubles can shoot as well as a bolt with open sights, that is; in off hand shooting the guns are identical, except the double is simply faster in a one two punch.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: JPK]
      #51514 - 05/03/06 11:28 AM

Do you have a link directly to that article. I have never seen it although I have been on the site quite a few times.

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Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: JPK]
      #51538 - 05/03/06 12:50 PM

JPK

I also looked on the site but couldn't find the article.

Can you provide a direct link.

TX

500 Nitro

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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Doubles-Over-rated?? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #51547 - 05/03/06 01:34 PM

Well, that makes three strikes since I couldn't find it myself.

It seems to have rolled out of the choices. On the other hand some of the really old articles are there along with the newer ones.

IIRC, it was in "The Firearms Files" section of the archives. I have a hard copy here somewhere and I will ask the editors what happened, where it is, if it is under our noses, and how to get a copy if mine is hard to find.

IIRC, Ganyana was the author.

A very breif summary would have the article being a recap of the process of standardizing the shooting portion of the Zim PH practical exam. At first it was believed that DR shooters would need some handi cap in the speed and accuracy combo tests. It was soon discovered that no handi cap was required and ultimately the test has been won repeatedly by DR shooters who consistently finish faster than their bolt rifle compatriots. IIRC, the particular test I'm thinking about is scored for time and accuracy under a formula which does handi cap the medium bore shooter. the test is Run five metres, shoot targets at 30m, 20m, 10m. then 10m, 20m, and finaly at 30m in that order.

Bolt users must reload at least one time, DR guys three times. The DR guys win hands down.

All this is As I Recall so don't shoot me for minor inaccuracies when I can get the original posted one way or another.

JPK

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