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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant?
      #51435 - 04/03/06 02:21 PM

Dead is dead but what is the worst charge to stop?
Buff or Ele?

I have been told by PH's that Elephants are "soft" and most can be stunned by one shot then finished off. Still PH's fear the cows and attacks by entire elephant pods!Someone is always getting chased. Exactly how dangerous are cow attacks?

They all seem to hold the Buff in respect.If he comes he can only be killed, not turned.My hunting bud thinks this rep is pure BS. He has shot 2 buff and feels this "horned cow" is not bulletproof and problems just come from poor bullet placement.Of course he has never faced a p.o.'d adrenalized Buff either.

Any opinions or stories out there? Should you use just solids on a Buff as well as Ele? How often do charges actually occur?

Buff vs Ele-what do you think?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51450 - 04/03/06 06:20 PM

Buffalo are the hardest to stop. Ele are hard to stop if you can't see them, which is often the case while hunting the Jesse thickets of Zimbabwe. This unfortunately happened last year to a PH hunting the very thick Jesse in the south east corner of Zim.
PS: Your friend is talking KAK..
Cheers,
OZHUNTER.

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Ndumo
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Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: ozhunter]
      #51452 - 04/03/06 06:36 PM

Yes, your friend does not know what he is talking about. I have shot charging buff in the chest with my .450 Rigby, using either 500 or 550 gr bullets at 2370 and 2230 ft/sec respectvely, and it might change their minds, but often does not. If they are attacking, or fleeing over you, they must be killed to stop them reliably. I have turned a buff cow, but she only turned about 15 yards after my shot, so I do not know if it was my shot that took some time to have an effect, or if something just cahnged her mind. I do imagine that I could see a change in her determination after my shot, but that is my very subjective observation. I think what makes elephant dangerous, is that you are far more likely to be charged by an unwounded one. I have had a few charges by elephant, luckily all gave pre- warning, and a hasty retreat/ shot over head was all that was neccicary. so far, I have not have to kill one in self defence, or even seen it happen. A lot of elephant charges are mock charges, and can be handled by facing them, or making a racket (shots fired, yelling). Whould love top hear what Ganyana thinks on this topic...

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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Boomer
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: Ndumo]
      #51475 - 05/03/06 01:53 AM

I find this thread particularly fascinating, and I hope more folks post on it.

I have read that if an elephant were as tough as a buffalo, nothing hand held could drop it. While such statements make interesting reading, they are of little value. Any close range charge by a large dangerous animal presents a difficult marksmanship problem, and thick cover increases the difficulty of the problem. The chance that you may not solve the problem in time interferes with your ability to work out the problem in the first place.

My experience has been with large bears, however a bear is not difficult to stop with a properly placed bullet, something not true of dangerous African game. I can however assure you that a large bear appearing suddenly at close range provides it's own brand of excitement. It also poses, to some degree, the same difficult marksmanship problem of speed, accuracy, and power. Of coarse to solve the problem, one must know where to put the bullet in the first place, and generally speaking, the bigger the animal, the less distinct the point of aim.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51582 - 06/03/06 03:29 AM

The deadliest charge is obviously the one that blows snot up your trouser legs.

As far as projectiles are concerned I now believe that solids are the best way to go.
I have previously had a soft in the chamber and solids in the magazine however on reflection after an incident a couple of years ago I will probably use only solids.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Geronimo
.275 member


Reged: 14/04/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Michigan,USA
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51622 - 06/03/06 01:33 PM

I agree with the posts above. Your friend is most assuredly talking from very limited experience. I have the somewhat dubious distinction of having been charged by and having killed a buffalo at an uncomfortably close 30 feet. This was, as is common, because the first shot was less than ideally placed( the animal took a step forward as the shot was made). He ran straight for the jesse. This buff eventually took both barrels from a .500NE to put him down. Even then he required a finisher! We have been chased a number of times by unwounded elephant and can usually dissuade their advance by yelling, a shot over their head, or a shot through the ear. Now cow elephant herds with young are really scarey and a lot harder to turn!

Geronimo

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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51665 - 07/03/06 02:53 AM

Geronimo, your story is far from unusual. Personally, I believe that there's a greater chance of getting into trouble with buffalo than elephant. I also think that in the case of a charge, buffalo can be much, much harder to put down, and in addition, the buffalo can be a much more determined foe.

AD

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51668 - 07/03/06 03:20 AM

The ele will often "mock charge" and thus a charge never becomes a full-blown "charge."

On the other hand, the buff practically never mock-charges. When they come, they usually come all the way.

I believe that's what makes the buff enfamous in this respect.

Either one is a deadly-serious affair, not to be taken lightly.

For your friend sake, I'd remind him that he's, respectfully, only shot 2 buff. If he hunts enough, he'll - sooner or later - disregard the "horned cow" theory.

That limited experience is kida' like winning on the first two trips to a casino and deducing that you're the best gambler in the world...

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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Will
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Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51721 - 07/03/06 07:56 PM

I think you pretty much covered it with "dead is dead."

Never been charged by a buff but it is not universally true that a buff cannot be turned, just in most cases! It is also not universally true that it is only wounded buff that will charge, just in most cases.

In most cases you are more likely to be charged by an unwounded elephant than an unwounded buff. Though both charges are potentially deadly, most intrepid hunters are saved by being with another hunter (the PH).

When the shit hits the fan it is usually the cool-handed shooting of the hunter or PH, or both, that saves the day. When that doesn't happen someone gets killed.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Deadliest Charge--Buff or Elephant? [Re: Will]
      #51726 - 07/03/06 11:05 PM

Spoke with A Zim PH who relayed a very close call with a charging buff.He has extensive experience and stated he has killed aprox a 1000 ele in his career.

He had one shot at very close range with his 470NE double on the buff charging him but only hit the animal in the left jaw. As the buff was on him he thought he was dead but abruptly the animal passed him by just like a spanish bullfight! He then killed the animal from a rear quartering angle with his 2nd shot.He has never heard of a buff being turned, and has seen many natives "tossed" by buff(on his video) but has never seen anything quite like that charge.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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