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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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sambar02
.224 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 3
303 Epps
      #5134 - 23/11/03 07:16 PM

I was wondering if any one out there has had any experience hunting with a 303 Epps,they were very popular back in the 40's to early 60's. I am lead to beleive that quite a few are still in use in Sth.Africa and India. I have had a no.4 converted to this round and just love it,

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smlekid
.224 member


Reged: 07/09/03
Posts: 1
Re: 303 Epps [Re: sambar02]
      #5762 - 16/12/03 10:06 PM

I have no personal experience with the epps but check out this page it is worth a look
www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/303Page.htm

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: 303 Epps [Re: sambar02]
      #13554 - 16/04/04 09:14 AM

Sambar 02,

I have never heard of the 303 Epps in India but the 303 Enfield was (and still is in some places) used very successfully. If you get any information on this wildcat(?) please e-mail it to me.

Thanks,

Mehul Kamdar

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: 303 Epps [Re: sambar02]
      #13629 - 17/04/04 12:30 PM

sambar - as Gibbs would know, the .303 Epps was a Canadian version of an "improved" .303 British cartridge.

Developed by Elwood Epps of Clinton, Ontario , the .303 Epps, when loaded to full potential is too much for rechambered SMLE rifles, but in an actions that will handle heavier loads, such as the P14 Enfield, .308 Win. type ballistics are feasible.

Epps was a prolific experimenter who used the same case to develop a line of "improved" cartridges, including 8mm, .338 and .35 calibres.

Post WW2, most of the former British Empire countries adapted the .303 British case; certainly, in Australia, there is a whole range of conversions to other bore sizes, many of them developed by Sprinter Arms in South Autralalia and Myra of Broken Hill, NSW.

Infact, there were so many different versions around, it pays to take a chamber cast and slug the bore to verify exactly what you've got before attemting to shoot rifles chambered for any of these rounds!

I once was left with a severe case of ringing ears after shooting a nice little Kurtz Mauser that a bought at an Adelaide Gunshow that was labelled 22 Hi-Power - a common conversion from 250/3000. Turned out that it was a wildcat .228/.303 British!

I'm sure the South Africans did the sort of same thing; perhaps an RSA member could enlighten us whether they adopted the .303 Epps as such??

I've got my doubts about India though!

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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: 303 Epps [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13632 - 17/04/04 03:01 PM

The australians also did a whole lot of wildcats based on the 303. I will dig some out if you like?

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: 303 Epps [Re: Gibbs505]
      #13638 - 17/04/04 11:58 PM

Gibbs – You rightly state that there was a plethora of conversions developed in Australia based on the .303 British case.

Wildcating in Australia was pioneered in 1934 when Bill Harrison first necked down the .303 British case to .22; paving the way for a whole horde of cartridges bearing the name .303/.22.

Post WW2, every gunsmith had his own version of the round, each with different neck length, shoulder angle and body taper, and every conceivable rifle action was chambered for them. Many of these it seems, were based on pulling bullets from ex military rounds, resizing and reseating a new projectile with the original Cordite charge intact.

Harrison soon abandoned the idea of the full length case because of pressure problems and went on to develop his .303 Crandall Varmint R2 and finally his .22 Wasp.

The problem of developing the full-length case to the inherently weak SMLE action was tackled by Jack Black, who removed the cordite, necked down the case in two stages and re-inserted 28 sticks of cordite, then seating a 45 grain Hornet bullet, resulting in a MV of 3300fps – sufficient to kill roos out to 200 yards.

There were parallel developments in other bore sizes – too many to mention here; but some made it past wildcat status and were loaded commercially by companies such as Riverbrand and Super Cartridge Co.

Some that I am aware of are; .303/22, .303/25, .303/270, 22 Sprinter,

Other wildcats included .22/303 Falcon, .22/303, .243/303, .228/303, 35/303 Pumpkin Roller, and many more.

I’m sure you can add to this list??

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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: 303 Epps [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13644 - 18/04/04 01:28 AM

Not likles I got most of my information from Ackleys handbook, a older copy!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: 303 Epps [Re: 470Rigby]
      #13657 - 18/04/04 01:33 PM

I came across a website where there was a P17 in .303 that was converted to what was called "303 Shortmag" by running a 308 Norma reamer into the chamber. Supposedly there was little or no work done to the bolt face.

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: 303 Epps [Re: AdamTayler]
      #13659 - 18/04/04 02:49 PM

Whow, dosen't that spell a big problem in case scretching???

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: 303 Epps [Re: Gibbs505]
      #13660 - 18/04/04 02:54 PM

you then neck up the 308 Norma to .311

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: 303 Epps [Re: AdamTayler]
      #13664 - 18/04/04 04:31 PM

And I can't spell!!

yuck, not at all!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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