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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles
      #51325 - 03/03/06 08:49 PM

What are folks preferences for "softs" with their doubles?
I like the Swift A-Frame with its bonded bullet for my 470NE. Any preference for others? Any better bullets out there? Why? What results have you seen?

Any preferences for solids?
Some will only shoot solids in their double. I use Barnes but others prefer other brands.Any ones to avoid out there?

Any bad experiences with certain bullets?

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51332 - 03/03/06 11:19 PM













Yes, they're all Woodleighs of course.
Geoff MacDonald specifically designed the bonded-core Woodleigh 'Weldcore' RNSN bullets to perfectly duplicate the Kynoch pattern softs and solids for ease of regulation in British double rifles. 'Nuff said. They just WORK!

I'll leave it up to others to toss around all that stuff about homogenous bullets in DRs (with or without bands!).

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: Marrakai]
      #51342 - 04/03/06 12:54 AM

I like the Woodleigh solids. They have performed well for me on three cape buffalo and two elephants. Those recovered were round and had no deformation. Only the rifling marks let you know they'd been used.

JPK

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: JPK]
      #51343 - 04/03/06 12:59 AM

I have used:

Barnes: TXS, shoot very well
Woodleigh: Soft and Solid, the standard
Hawk: - don't like these
North Fork: 350gr 458 FP only.
GS: on order.
Cast Performance: excellent results.

--------------------


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"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: bonanza]
      #51430 - 04/03/06 01:46 PM

Has anyone tried the Swift A frame vs the Woodleigh soft nose?
Any opinions how the Swift stand up against the standard on real game?

My Merkel loves Swifts but the Woodleigh softs deserves
a trial too.

The one best on the game wins!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Big_John
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Reged: 18/02/06
Posts: 5
Loc: Southern California, USA
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: hoppdoc]
      #51442 - 04/03/06 03:37 PM

A good soft bullet is best used for your first shot, because your first shot is almost always your best shot. Your second barrel should have a solid in her, you want more penetration on the second shot because the animal is more than likely cornering one way or another and your line of sight to the vital organs is now blocked by much more hide and muscle than was before.

A friend of mine did some hippo hunting with a .50 caliber machinegun last year while in Africa, you ever seen a hippo attack a Humvee? Didnt work out to good for the hippo!

Needless to say, the locals didnt mind. They ate it for dinner!

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: Big_John]
      #51448 - 04/03/06 04:44 PM


"A friend of mine did some hippo hunting with a .50 caliber machinegun last year while in Africa, you ever
seen a hippo attack a Humvee? Didnt work out to good for the hippo! "

I suppose it was already chopped up for them !!!

A bit like using M203's and 40mm Grenade Launchers on roos !!!

500 Nitro

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510Wells
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Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Gold Bar, Wa.
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #52556 - 16/03/06 11:36 AM

In my 500NE I stick with Woodleighs. It's what the gun was regulated with

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The only constant is change.

Member DRSS

Edited by 510Wells (16/03/06 11:37 AM)

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: 510Wells]
      #52576 - 16/03/06 02:25 PM

500grains:
A perfect opportunity to toss up the link to your bullet comparisons again!

Can anyone else post the url?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: hoppdoc]
      #52587 - 16/03/06 05:17 PM

hoppdoc:

I wouldn't use a Barnes mono solid in ANY double rifle. If you simply must have monos, the true banded type are the only hope in a double.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #52628 - 17/03/06 03:49 AM

Marrakai, ask and ye shall receive.

GS Custom flat nose copper bullets. Available from www.gscustom.co.za

From left (all GS Custom):

(1) unfired 570 grain 500 Nitro Express bullet
(2) 570 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant (frontal brain) - penetrated 74 inches, but missed neck vertebrae
(3) 570 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant (frontal brain) - penetrated 31 inches and stuck in neck vertebrae
(4) 570 grain bullet fired into buffalo (body shot) - penetrated 60 inches
(5) unfired 500 grain .470 Capstick bullet
(6) 500 grain .474" bullet fired into buffalo (body shot) - penetrated 56"
(7) 500 grain .474" bullet fired into giraffe (body shot) - penetrated 40"





Woodleigh FMJ bullets recovered from game. From left:
(1) unfired 570 grain 500 Nitro Express bullet
(2) 570 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant head (note deformation of the bullet base) (59 inches of penetration, missed neck vertebrae)
(3) unfired 500 grain .474” bullet
(4) 500 grain .474" bullet fired into elephant head at 2300 fps (note core squirting out the base of the bullet) (31 inches of penetration, stuck in neck vertebrae)
(5) 500 grain .474" bullet fired into waterbuck at 125 yards, muzzle velocity was 2300 fps (53 inches of penetration)
(6) unfired 480 grain .458” bullet
(7) 480 grain .458" bullet fired into eland shoulder at 2200 fps (31 inches of penetration)
(8) 480 grain .458" bullet fired into elephant (frontal chest shot) at 2200 fps (53 inches of penetration)

The Woodleigh solids did not exhibit as large a wound channel as either the GS Custom or Bridger bullets. On elephant heads they seem to be just as good as Bridger and GS Custom, but on body shots they do not penetrate as deeply as flat nose solids, on average.



Barnes and Trophy Bonded bullets recovered from game. From left:

(1) unfired Barnes 570 grain 500 Nitro Express bullet
(2) Barnes 570 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant chest which did not fully penetrate on a broadside shot even though no bones were hit (46 inches of penetration). Note - a Bridger fired on a similar shot penetrated all the way through.
(3) unfired Barnes 500 grain .474” bullet
(4) 500 grain Barnes .474" bullet fired into elephant head (frontal brain) (25 inches of penetration)
(5) 500 grain Barnes bullet fired into elephant head (34" stopped in neck vertebrae)
(6) unfired 500 grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer .474” bullet
(7) Trophy Bonded 500 grain .474" fired into elephant head (frontal brain) (36 inches of penetration, stopped in neck vertebrae_.

Interestingly, on average the Barnes solids penetrated the shallowest of from among the group of non-expanding solids consisting of Barnes, Bridger, GS Custom, Trophy Bonded and Woodleigh. I attribute that to the hemisphereical round nose design combined with a brass that is less dense than the materials some other companies are using to make solids.



North Fork cup nosed solids (available from www.northforkbullets.com) From left to right:

1. North Fork 500 grain Cup Nosed Solid .474" - new

2. same, fired into buffalo - 56" penetration

3. same, fired into giraffe - 55" penetration

4. same, fired into giraffe (100 yards follow up shot) - 58" (penetration increased when expansion was less due to reduced velocity at range?)

velocity - 2300 fps from 470 capstick



The pic below shows Bridger flat nose brass bullets recovered from game. From left (all Bridger solids):

(1) unfired 550 grain 500 Nitro Express bullet,
(2) 550 grain 500 NE bullet fired into cape buffalo (body shot) - 60 inches of penetration
(3) 550 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant (body shot) - 52 inches of penetration
(4) unfired 500 grain .470 Capstick bullet
(5) 500 grain 470 Capstick bullet fired into elephant (frontal chest) - 72 inches of penetration
(5) 500 grain bullet fired into elephant (frontal brain) - 39 inches of penetration, stuck in neck vertebrae
(6) unfired 300 grain .375 bullet
(7) 300 grain .375 H&H fired into cape buffalo (frontal chest) - 48 inches of penetration, stopped in guts
(8) 300 grain .375 bullet fired into cape buffalo (frontal chest) - 46 inches of penetration, stopped in guts



Bridger solids will soon be available on-line from http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/

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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: 500grains]
      #52647 - 17/03/06 07:22 AM

I have read about too many problems with pure solids in double rifles. The banded solids appear to be the way to go.

Does anyone have any experience with the Barnes banded solids? They do not have driving bands like GS, North Fork or bridger, but their banded solids would present less surface area to the lands.

Comments?

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: Grizzly]
      #52650 - 17/03/06 07:56 AM

Griz,

IMO the Barnes banded solids present too much surface area against the rifling, so much that in fact the barrel must flex. A true driving band solid will have relatively thin bands so that the bullet material may easily be displaced by the rifling into the groove right behind any particular band. Barnes banded solids do not provide that function. The function I am talking about can best be seen by looking at the GS Custom and North fork bullets above.

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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: 500grains]
      #52668 - 17/03/06 01:22 PM

Those Bridger bullets look great. And the price looks right (about $70 or so for 50 bullets.) North Fork is ALL OUT of cup points for at least the next two months. I have some of the GS Custom on order.



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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Soft and Solid Bullets for Doubles [Re: 500grains]
      #52685 - 18/03/06 02:34 AM

The banded (or triple-shock)Barnes bullets I checked had undersize bands that reduced pressure in my 7mm rifle.
: It is interesting that the round-ball nose of the Barnes penetrated less - can't argue with evidence, though.
: I'd expect the flat-nose might not girate as much while penetrating. As well, it will havea cutting effect, rather than spreading the tissue as far as the round nose bullets.
: Seyfried noted that the .416" Barnes Solids he shot into Cape Buffalo exited from any angle, but made fairly wide holes through the meat and tissue. His premise what that the bases girated as they travelled though. Evidence being the collapsed shanks of .458 Winchester bullets that had too-thin jackets.
: I do like to see photos of "result' bullets with good data.
: I am quite sure I wouldn't personally shoot a solid, 'soild' through thin double rifle barrels joined by solder. That's got to be hard on them, but then, with a heavy steel jacket solid, is there less 'stress'?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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