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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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bipbigbore
.224 member


Reged: 06/10/05
Posts: 42
Loc: USA
A-Square
      #51088 - 01/03/06 10:43 AM

All,

I just bought an older winchester mod 70 super express in 416 rem. I am looking to select a load for it.

The guy who sold it to me said it shot the A-Square factory stuff quite well.

Does anyone have any experience hunting with them? I would plan on the gun for African Mixed Bag (including Buff and larger plains game) as well as the larger bears.

I appreciate any information or opinions.

Thanks,

BBB

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: A-Square [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51291 - 03/03/06 01:44 PM

A-Square has an interesting concept called the bullet triad. I believe the concept is sound, although unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to try them. The triad is made up of 3 bullets the same shape, ballistic coefficient and sectional density, thus they will follow the same trajectory when loaded to the same velocity, however the 3 bullets are very different. The triad is made up of a monolithic solid, and two soft points, the Dead Tough, and the Lion Load.

The Monolithic Solid needs little explanation, except to say that it incorporates the design features I like to see on a solid - parallel sides, hemispherical nose, and a cutting band. The Dead Tough is a bonded core soft point, a jack of all trades bullet suitable for use against a broad range of game animals, and dependable through a broad velocity spectrum. The Lion Load is I believe a truly unique bullet. The jacket and core are made brittle during the manufacturing process, so the bullet is designed to penetrate the shoulder or ribs of the target animal then it goes to pieces causing maximum tissue destruction once inside.

A-Square's loading manual is a worth while investment, and is very much written with the African big game hunter in mind.



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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: A-Square [Re: Boomer]
      #51301 - 03/03/06 04:00 PM

In reply to:

The Lion Load is I believe a truly unique bullet. The jacket and core are made brittle during the manufacturing process, so the bullet is designed to penetrate the shoulder or ribs of the target animal then it goes to pieces causing maximum tissue destruction once inside.



The Lion load is the most dangerous bullet you can load. It is way too fragile to be used on Lion or any other game that can hurt you.




--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: A-Square [Re: mickey]
      #51309 - 03/03/06 04:23 PM


I agree. The Lion Load did not work and was not recommended
by alot of people in Africa for the reasons mentioned by Mickey.

500 Nitro

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: A-Square [Re: 500Nitro]
      #51330 - 03/03/06 11:01 PM

Well there ya go - if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

Just out of curiosity, what was the nature of the failure? I assume the bullet blew up before penetrating. Any idea what the impact velocity would of been?

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: A-Square [Re: Boomer]
      #51434 - 04/03/06 02:18 PM

In reply to:

Poster: Boomer
Subject: Re: A-Square

Well there ya go - if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

Just out of curiosity, what was the nature of the failure? I assume the bullet blew up before penetrating. Any idea what the impact velocity would of been?




The speed depended on the rifle. My direct knowledge is from a 577 3 " that blew up on a Lion's jaw at 10 feet. It turned the Lion , but aside from knocking out 2 teeth and doing some gum damage was ineffective. The second barrel misfired.

I have heard nothing positive about them on DG although Leopard may be okay.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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JTOMLINSON
.300 member


Reged: 16/02/05
Posts: 188
Loc: York, England
Re: A-Square [Re: mickey]
      #51567 - 05/03/06 09:03 PM

Surely they would be more than a match for any dangerous African .....................Meerkats

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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: A-Square [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51580 - 06/03/06 03:21 AM

I don't have any experience with A-Square ammo at all.

However, last year I sent my 416 Rem. Mag. to Superior Ammunition and had them work up solid and soft-point loads. The results were incredibly good, with fine accuracy, consistent pressures at all temperatures, with both loads hitting in exactly the same place. I've never fired better ammunition through ANY rifle, ever.

Superior not only works up the loads and will furnish loaded, premium-quality ammunition that's specific to your rifle, but they include comprehensive test results and furnish you with the actual load recipe that you can duplicate yourself. They'll keep your loads on file, so if you don't want to load yourself, just pick up the phone and place your order. It couldn't be any simpler, and Superior is a totally reliable outfit that operates at a high level of integrity........

www.superiorammo.com

AD

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bipbigbore
.224 member


Reged: 06/10/05
Posts: 42
Loc: USA
Re: A-Square [Re: allenday]
      #51589 - 06/03/06 05:59 AM

Thanks. I have worked up a number of loads with Larry at Superior as well and found his stuff to be excellent.

For you gents who have heard bad things about the Lion Load, how about the Dead Tough and the Monolithic for Buffalo type animals.

BBB

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: A-Square [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51658 - 07/03/06 01:19 AM

One more note on the "Lion Load." I came across a comment made by Kevin Robertson in "The Perfect Shot" concerning these bullets. The bullets, he said, worked well in the .375 on chest shot lions, however, failures had and would occur when the shoulder blade was struck. The idea that you might choose a bullet for use on dangerous game that cannot be counted on from any angle is not reasonable. You just don't know what shot will be offered to you.

Mickey/500Nitro - from the comments concerning the failures of these bullets, I can't help but think that the large frontal area of the .577 would make an already brittle bullet more prone to break-up. If true, this creates the interesting situation of a big bore having inferior terminal performance to a small bore. Now that doesn't happen very often.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: A-Square [Re: Boomer]
      #51660 - 07/03/06 01:32 AM


Boomer

Kevin Robertson was one of the references I was referring to
with negative comments on Lion Loads.

I still believe weight of bullet / weight retention (ie Bonded Core)
is primary over velocity. I tend to use a heavy for calibre bullet
if a choice is available - ie 300gn over 270 gn in 375H&H.
I just feel it gives you more options from any angle.

500 Nitro

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Boomer
.300 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: A-Square [Re: 500Nitro]
      #51664 - 07/03/06 02:11 AM

I couldn't agree more. The 380 gr. Rhino bullets I ordered from Kobus arrived last week. I'll bet the buffalo in the Selous are already worried.

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