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bipbigbore
.224 member


Reged: 06/10/05
Posts: 42
Loc: USA
Chapuis vs. Merkel
      #51087 - 01/03/06 10:39 AM

All,

I have recently heard that the new Merkels are not very good and that the Chapuis are the best of the "Value" class in big bore doubles.

Can anyone give me some thoughts on this?

Also, I am interested in a sub-$10,000 double in 470 or 500 if anyone is looking to sell one.

BBB


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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51090 - 01/03/06 11:50 AM

I'll be the first to chime in.

First, you will hear a lot of talk about the Merkel DRs being made on their shtogun actions. Some say this is true, others say it is BS. I have no specific knowledge so i can't give a technical opinion about it.

What I can tell you is this: I bought a Merkel after looking at and shooting other DRs. The Merkel just LOOKED and FELT the best for me. In my opinion, the Chapuis is "goofy" looking. The fore end is way too long and curves up around the barrels - not very asthetically pleasing to my eye.

Now, the Merkel is much slimmer than a lot of other DR actions. Some people think this is a plus, others a negative. I personally love the way it feels. My .500 NE is slightly over 10 lbs.

I do recommend getting a recoil installed if you go with a Merkel.

Merkel has the Greener Cross Bolt and Chopper Lump Barrels (if I'm not mistaken).

Some people say that the Merkels come off face quickly. There are a number of other gentlemen on this forum who own Merkels and have large numbers of big bore rounds fired through theirs - they are still on face. And, the action is still tight. Mine is still tight after A LOT of rounds.

This is just the rantings of little old me. Take it for what it is worth. But I recommend that you handle and shoot both types before you make any decision on buying.

Are you considering a Searcy also???



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: clark7781]
      #51091 - 01/03/06 12:00 PM

I agree. I might add that the Chapuis just looks cheap. Rolled engraving, wood/metal fit not up to an expensive gun. That's on the outside. That worries me about the inside. I like the Merkel but prefer the Searcy.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: Peterb]
      #51094 - 01/03/06 12:59 PM

BBB,

I own a merkel .375 H&H and a Chapuis 470. So who better to guide you than me. Don't listen to anyone who does not own one, they are full of BS. Both are fine rifles, well made and highly precise. You will get what you pay for.

The Chapuis is arguably one of the strongest doubles produced and they are guaranteed to never come off face. The wood to metal fit on my gun is exellent and over all finish is very good for the price. Mine is heavy (11.2 lbs) - that may be a plus.

The Merkel is more traditional looking and feeling. Mine is in .375 H&H and weighs about 9 lbs – prefect. I have 500+ rounds through it and its smack on face.

Both will shoot a sub 2” group on a good day, 2.5” on a bad day.

Whatever you buy, you won't be wanting for quality. It's just a fact that Chapuis's fetch a slightly higher price.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51098 - 01/03/06 01:47 PM

I own a Chapuis and I've shot a couple of Merkels and handled a fair deal of both of them. I have friends who have both. I think they are very comparable to one another. I've not noticed a big "regulation" difference between the ones I've shot, so at least in my experience the groups are comparable. I'd happily own a Merkel one day if I wanted another rifle (in fact I just might get one of their drillings in the future!).

I've seen and heard of small quality control issues with both of them, but thats what you get with "industrial" double guns whether rifles or shotguns. Same things with Aya, uggies, berettas, etc.

As the posters have said one of the big differences is the "looks". I've heard some people complain about the "teutonic" looks of the Merkel (ie. being German they have German taste and don't look like a British DR). Many people also get a butt pad added and change the factory sights. I don't buy the "Merkels come off face thing". I've seen some Merkels both in the big bore and in medium calibres that have been used hard for several years and they still were tight on face.

I've also heard people complain about the Chapuis, especially in terms of wood (quality of wood, and sometimes quality of checkering), and the looks (especially that big beavertail). Also some don't like the double underhook design which is supposed to make it stronger, but is a little unconventional. I've shot the hell out of mine in the past 5 years, and drug it through some pretty bad weather in Southeast Alaska and its tight and in good working order.

I will say one thing that is nice about Chapuis if you order one yourself: they do offer lots of options so you can customize your rifle. You can specify stock measurements, scope mounts, barrel length, quality of wood, custom engraving, etc. Of course these all cost extra...


I think this comes down to personal taste and you'd have to see for yourself. I'd recomend handling and if possible shooting a few and seeing what you like best.


That said you might keep your eyes open for other makers too. I like Demas better than Chapuis, though you don't see them over this way often. There is also Sercey to consider, including the new 'Classic' model. Lastly, though they are more expensive I've been impressed by some of the Heym rifles I've seen (though their looks turn off many...).

Anyways hope this help!

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: Chasseur]
      #51112 - 01/03/06 06:49 PM

Between these two, I probably like the Chapuis best. In 9.3 I much prefer it to the Merkel. In the large bores, I would choose the Merkel only because it is cheaper.

As much as I like the medium bore Chapuis, this "guaranteed to never come off face" business is a howl. The last two off face double rifles I've seen were both Chapuis. One of these, a .375 H&H, was the worst case of "off face" I've ever seen, bar none. But, I've seen a few Merkels that rattled too.

Both are decent, serviceable guns for the money.
-----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51128 - 02/03/06 12:42 AM

Bib,

I think the posters here have summed up the to very well. You real problem is finding a sub 10K big bore. Mine is for sale at $12,500 and that is negotiable.


--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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bipbigbore
.224 member


Reged: 06/10/05
Posts: 42
Loc: USA
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: bonanza]
      #51130 - 02/03/06 12:59 AM

Bonanza,

Thanks for the insight. What is the DR that you have for sale?

BBB


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: bonanza]
      #51131 - 02/03/06 01:02 AM

My order of preference in the more affordable doubles:

Searcy (for strength and accuracy)
Heym (for slim design)
Merkel/Chapuis
Krieghoff

It is true that the Merkel is made from a 20 gauge shotgun action which has been re-hardened. Rigby use the same action for their double rifles. There was an article all about it in Safari magazine about 2 years ago. The stories about Merkels coming off face seem centered around Merkels which were chambered in 416 rigby. Merkel has discontinued that chambering.

Chapuis may be guaranteed to never come off face, but I saw one that was off face after less than 200 rounds. Yet I shot another couple of Chapuis that shot extremely well at 100 yards, which is a bit more than one can expect from most doubles.


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51133 - 02/03/06 01:43 AM

It's a Chapuis 470 PH-I. You can find it on gunsamerica. If you need to know why I'm selling email me.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Chapuis vs. Merkel [Re: bipbigbore]
      #51134 - 02/03/06 01:45 AM

BBB:

Here is a Merkel that is for sale at Hendershot's (where I got my Merkel .500 NE and CptCurl got his).

It's on Gunsamerica and lists for a hair under $9000.00

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976680388.htm

What are your thoughts about a Searcy? I would seriously considering on of Butch's guns...

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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