BlainSmipy
.375 member
Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
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Hello,
Do African country's require the barrels to be stamped with the currently chambered round? I know that the brass has to be stamped, but are barrels required as well?
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allenday
.333 member
Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
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In my opinion, yes.
Any rifle you take should have the serial number and make of the rifle stamped or engraved on the receiver, plus the model and caliber stamped on the barrel. Something like "375" isn't good enough, either. If your rifle is a 375 H&H, then it should be designated as such.
For example, my own 375 H&H is a custom job built on a Model 70 action with a non-factory custom barrel. The receiver, of course, has the "Winchester" logo on the left side, with the serial number on the right side. The barrel has "375 H&H" engraved on the left, with "Model 70" on the right side.
My rule of thumb: Any numbers or terms that you use to describe your rifle on a firearms permit form, hunting license application, or U.S. Customs form should be clearly marked as such on your rifle. In addition, the caliber headstamp on your ammunition should clearly match the caliber designation on your rifle. For example, a rifle marked "338-06" on the barrel with brass stamped "30-06" doesn't really cut it in my opinion.
I once had an overly-ambitious custom riflemaker rework a pre-64 Model 70 into a 338 Win. Mag. In his somewhat misguided efforts to blueprint the receiver to absolute perfect dimensions, he removed the "Winchester" logo altogether, without telling me in advance that he intended to do so. He just went ahead and did it anyway. That rifle shot like crazy, but I always despised the fact that it no longer carried the original factory logo on the receiver, and I never had that rifle outside the state of Oregon because of it. To take it out-of-country was not a practical consideration. So I eventually sold it to a local friend who only intended to hunt elk around here with it.
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BFaucett
.333 member
Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 472
Loc: Houston, Texas
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I think Allen summed it up very well and I concur.
I will add that most factory rifles, that I'm aware of at least, should not present a problem in regards to markings. A custom rifle, of course, could potentially present a problem depending upon how it is marked for caliber, etc.
-Bob F.
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500grains
.416 member
Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
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Nobody ever looked at my barrel or my ammo. They just wanted me to read the serial no to them. Otherwise, they would have wanted to know how I planned to use those 30 carbine rounds in a .500 NE chamber.
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SAHUNT
Sponsor
Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
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Last year when I went hunting in Namibia the SAPS checked every rifle personally. I had to dismantle my 308 for them to see the serial number. The reason, my headspace had to be corrected and the serial number ended up at the bottom of the barrel, with the stock hiding it. Thank heavens I had my Leatherman with me.
You might just be the unlucky one who's stuff is checked properly. On the Namibian side they checked nothing, I did not even had to read the numbers for them.
Rather do it the correct way, it is not worth ending up in a foreign country and having problems.
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Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience
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BFaucett
.333 member
Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 472
Loc: Houston, Texas
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On my trip in August 2005 to South Africa, I took two rifles. At the airport, SAPS checked both rifles for caliber markings (and of course the serial numbers) and they checked the headstamps on my ammo.
-Bob F.
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BlainSmipy
.375 member
Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
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500/450?
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allenday
.333 member
Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
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Label me as a picky bugger, but I wouldn't be happy with a crossed-out/re-stamped caliber designation on the barrel, and for a whole lot of reasons. But fundamentally, I think the markings need to be clear and distinct, and without the suggestion of any sort of hocus-pocus or slight-of-hand. You don't want some official somewhere to ask questions about why the original caliber marks were crossed out, then remarked. The less explaining you have to do, the better.
Keep things simple, straight, uncompromising, and to-the-point........even if that means you go with a different rifle for your safari.
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SAHUNT
Sponsor
Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
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I wil suggest you take along a certificate in which your gunsmith declares thet he changed the calibre from this to that. Then you have proof for the crossed out markings.
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Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience
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4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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In reply to:
I wouldn't be happy with a crossed-out/re-stamped caliber designation on the barrel, and for a whole lot of reasons.
I totally agree with Allen on this.
A talented gunsmith can remove the original stamping and restamp (or engrave) the new chambering so that the change is almost undetectable.
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oupa
.300 member
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
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"...so for my custom rifles I should have the gunsmith cross out the old chambering and stamp the new one in..."
NO! Your gunsmith will probably already know this but he should totally remove the previous caliber marking . This will leave a small flat spot that may or may not be used to stamp the new markings. The serial number markings should not, however be altered in any way, as this is a serious crime in the U.S. It is permissible (and recommended) to stamp/engrave the same markings in a more accessible location if hidden from view though.
As for clearing security when traveling... not enough can be said regarding knowing proper requirements and being prepared for them before leaving home! These rules are changing constantly and what worked last time may not work today! Know the rules, have the right paperwork, make sure your firearms and ammunition are properly marked, be courteous but not a wimp while dealing with the security staff and above all... don't be in a hurry!
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4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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In reply to:
he should totally remove the previous caliber marking . This will leave a small flat spot that may or may not be used to stamp the new markings
oupa,
I've seen this job done without any flat being left after the old chambering stamping was removed.
It requires skilled gunsmithing but it can be done so that the alteration is completely unnoticable.
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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member
Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
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I have one customized rifle. It's a Winchester Mod. 70 that started out as a .375 H&H, but was rechambered to .375 Ackley Improved. Since my ammunition is made from fire formed 375 H&H cases, I decided to keep the original H&H stamping on the barrel, because getting cases with the Ackley head stamp was difficult at the time, I didn't change the stamping. A friend suggested I get the word Ackley stamped on the barrel, and if anyone asks, just tell them that is the name of my gunsmith.
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butchloc
.300 member
Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
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my 458 lott still is stamped 458 win - both rounds fit ok, but in all my trips I've never had anything like this questioned, but i will defer to the guys to have had it done on joberg. I haven't hunted RSA in a dozen years.
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oupa
.300 member
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
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4seventy, yes I agree that the re-marking can be done without apparent evidence - but usually only if the entire barrel is refinished. If it is a simple re-chambering that doesn't require outwardly marring the barrel it would be very difficult to blend the metal so as to be unnoticeable and the degree to which cold blue would be applied to this large area would not be best. Additionally, to properly blend the contours, any other nearby desirable markings would likely be lost with the caliber designation. On the other hand, a (very) small "flat" with the new markings is not terribly distracting and requires only a very small application of cold blue.
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4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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In reply to:
Additionally, to properly blend the contours, any other nearby desirable markings would likely be lost with the caliber designation.
Oupa,
There is another way of doing this job which does not affect any other markings on the barrel.
The unwanted stamping is removed with endmill or slot drill, then a piece of steel is filed to perfectly fit into the milled recess with a small amount protruding proud of the barrel surface.
It is imperative that the insert fits perfectly and it is then peened slowly and gently with a small hammer to expand it into the recess.
It is then dressed off and polished and then the barrel is reblued.
When done correctly it is undetectable with naked eye inspection.
Works a treat but requires skill to achieve a perfect job.
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oupa
.300 member
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
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Interesting concept. I've never done it (or had reason to) but I am aware of some smiths using this technique for filling voids. You are right, it would take considerable skill to do invisibly, but not impossible! I believe I'd use a judicious application of low-temp silver solder to safeguard "the patch" working loose, possibly losing the numbers. With the possible exception of very high end guns it seems a lot of unnecessary trouble though... just my humble opinion.
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4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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Absolutely no need for any solder if done correctly and solder is likely to make the job harder to make look right with the blueing.
Flats milled on barrels look badly out of place IMO.
It all comes down to the ability/talent/skill/passion of the smith.
There are gunsmiths and there are gunsmiths IMO.
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4seventy
Sponsor
Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
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I know of a pre 64 model 70 which had been owned by a pro buff shooter in the Territory and the rifle had endured a fairly hard life.
The scope mounts had been arc welded to the action and the weld was burned in deep with an undercut at the edges.
During a restoration the welds were removed and the action repaired using the technique I described in my earlier post.
When finished the only give away was a barely detectable slight difference in the colour of the blueing when closely examined in bright light.
The job was done by one of Australias top gunsmiths, a man who is very capable of quality work.
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