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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE?
      #50305 - 19/02/06 11:57 AM


I have found a great double action with double underlugs, with three bites believe it or not and a third hidden fastner. This action also has side clips and is a large French 12 gauge. Considering the strength of this action I have been thinking of building a double chambered for one of the these three cartridges, the 470 NE, .475 # 2 Ne or the 500 NE. Which one would you pick and why?

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It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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Safarischorsch
.275 member


Reged: 28/02/04
Posts: 98
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Judson]
      #50319 - 19/02/06 08:24 PM

.450 N.E. 3 1/4

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Judson]
      #50320 - 19/02/06 09:44 PM

My pick would be the 500 NE as it has more of everything compared to the others.
More bullet diameter, more bullet weight, more energy, but of course also more recoil, and often more weight.
The 500 NE 3" is an easy cartridge to reload and is managable in a 10 1/2 pound double with full power loads.
Best chambering in a big double IMO.


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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: 4seventy]
      #50324 - 20/02/06 12:48 AM

I did not include the .450 because I already have a 450 # 2 NE that I built and I love it. The 500 is intresting but as far as re sale I am not sure.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Judson]
      #50327 - 20/02/06 02:15 AM

I'd go to the .500 as well. If you have an action that will take it might as well take full advantage of the action. I think I'd even be tempted by a .577.

I think that either chambering while not as popular as the 470 wouldn't be a tough sell in a less expensive double. But why would you want to sell it .

BB

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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: banzaibird]
      #50365 - 20/02/06 12:50 PM


I make my living building custom rifles and I love building them! Your point about why sell the rifle is good, if I build a double rifle, (I love double rifles) and it is chambered for a cartridge which is a hard selling point then I might be able to keep it. I like the way you think!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3729
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Judson]
      #50367 - 20/02/06 01:13 PM

Judson:
If you intend to impress others, then the .475 No.2 is undoubtedly the most imposing cartridge of the three listed. Its just such a big sucker!

My own preference might well be the .577 x 2 3/4 in the 650/90 configuration. Manageable recoil in a 10 1/2 to 11 lb gun, and with Woodleigh bonded-core bullets, or their new 650gr steel-jacketed solid, it's a far better cartridge today than it ever was, a real giant-killer!

The full-nitro .500 needs plenty of gun-weight IMHO, difficult to build into the action of a converted shotgun and still get the handling right.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Marrakai]
      #50369 - 20/02/06 01:31 PM


The reality of the situation is that a customer of mine is intrested in the .475 chambering and with the pressure factor and that he is a hand loader that is a pluss. Your point about ballance is very good and real consideration. Have you shot a .450 # 2 NE and how does the recoil compare to the .500 in a rifle of simular weight I know it would be more.

--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Judson]
      #50372 - 20/02/06 02:43 PM

.500

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bulldog563
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Reged: 21/10/05
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Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: 500grains]
      #50374 - 20/02/06 02:59 PM

500

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3729
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Judson]
      #50379 - 20/02/06 04:58 PM

Judson:
My own experience is almost entirely with British doubles, which are generally made at the 'correct' weight for calibre. I have never even seen a Searcy in the flesh, and probably only a dozen or so Merkels, Kreighoffs, Chapuis, etc.

Against that background, almost all Brit nitro doubles are pleasant to shoot as the gun-weight generally increases with power level. That said, 10 to 11 pound guns are OK to carry all day, and if well-stocked and balanced are quick to get into action and lively to shoot. On the other hand, 12 to 13 pound rifles are definitely pushing the envelope, becoming too heavy to carry all day and unhandy to mount and shoot quickly.

Rifles chambered for the .450 to .475 family of cartridges can be made to fit well into the former category, ie 10 to 11 pounds, whereas the .500 is a definite step up in power IMHO and really needs an extra pound or two of gun weight to shoot comfortably.

I am well aware of the current trend to build light-weight .500 doubles (...on 20-bore shotgun frames, we keep hearing? ) and in today's world of "point it where the PH says and fire one good shot" then who cares how light the rifle is, or how hard you get belted. But those of us who hunt regularly on foot and fire many shots at game with our doubles in an average day will need a comfortable rifle to carry and shoot.

A simple deduction from all this is that the .450 to .475 NEs are a practical maximum for a 'working' double, and that the .500 is a different animal altogether which is probably at its best on guided pachyderms and quite simply too much weight and power for enjoyable everyday shooting.

Just my own opinion gentlemen, flame away if it makes you feel better!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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banzaibird
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Reged: 18/09/05
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Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Marrakai]
      #50399 - 21/02/06 01:21 AM

With the talk of gun weight I thought this might be of interest. Over that last day or so I've been surfing the web and compiling a list of caliber and weights of DR's (& barrel length) that are out there for sale. Now I didn't duplicate any guns that had the same specs. I also didn't include a lot because they had no gun weight listed. Here is the list I compiled.

Caliber...Manufacturer...Weight...Barrel Length
280 Flanged NE...Greener...10lbs 9oz...26”
30-06...Borovnik...9lbs...24”
300...H&H Mag-Purdey...9lbs 8oz...24"
303...MacNaughton...8lbs
8x57JRS...Chapuis...7lbs 7oz...24”
8x57JR...Dumoulin...7lbs 8oz...25”
8x57JRS...Rizzini, Battista...7lbs 5oz...23 ½”
8x57JRS...Thieme Schlegelmilch...7lbs 8oz...23 5/8”
8x75RS...Waffen D’Schulnigg...9lbs 14oz (sc)...23 Ύ”
360#2 NE...Greener...10lbs 3oz...26”
9.3x74R...Merkel 150-1.1...8lbs 4oz...23 ½”
375 Flanged...Charles Lancaster...9lbs...26”
375 Flanged Mag...Midland...10lbs 9oz...26”
375 Flanged Mag...Holland & Holland...9lbs 2oz...24"
375 H&H Mag...Holland & Holland...10lbs 2oz...26”
400/350...Christoph Funk...9lbs 1oz...26”
405 Win...JB Ronge...7lbs 1oz...25 5/8”
450/400...Watson Bros...10lbs 8oz...24”
450/400...Lloyd & Son...11lbs 8oz
450/400(3)...WJ Jeffery...9lbs 14oz...24”
450/400(3)...W Jeffery...11lbs 6oz...25”
450/400(3)...Raick...7lbs 12oz...26”
450/400(3 Ό)...C Lancaster C grade...10lbs 8oz...28”
450/400(3 Ό)...Army/Navy...11lbs 7oz...26”
450/400(3 Ό)... Westley Richards...10lbs 2oz...24”
500/416...Rigby (California)...13lbs 8oz...24”
450#2...W Jeffery...12lbs 4oz...24”
458 WM...Heym 88...10lbs 8oz...25 ½”
465NE...Hoilland & Holland...10lbs 12oz...26”
500/465(3 Ό)...Holland & Holland...10lbs 13oz...23 Ό”
500/465...Westley Richards...11lbs 10oz...26”
470NE...Chapuis...10lbs 5oz...23 5/8”
470NE...Waffen D’Schulnigg...11lbs 8oz (sc)...23 Ύ”
470NE...William Douglass & Sons...9lbs 9oz...23 ½”
470...Heym...9lbs 11oz...24”
470(450 3 Ό)...Rigby...10lbs 9oz...24”
470...Westley Richards...11lbs 4oz...22”
470...Victor Sarasquetta...10lbs
470...Fabriques ,D Arms...9lbs 12oz...24”
470(3 BPE)...Manton...10lbs 14oz...26”
470...Merkel 140-2.1...11lbs...23 ½”
475(3 1/4)...Cogswell & Harrison...11lbs 8oz...25”
500 BPE...Holland & Holland...9lbs...26”
500 3 Ό ...Westley Richards...12lbs 11oz...26”
577NE(3)...Alex Martin...12lbs...24”
577NE(3)...Francotte...13lbs 3oz...27 Ό”
577NE(3)...Holland & Holland...14lbs 2oz...26”
577(3)...Searcy...13lbs 8oz...24”
577(NFB)...I Hollis & Sons...11lbs 8oz...26 ½”
577...Army/Navy...14lbs...22”
577NE...Holland & Holland...13lbs 8oz...26"
700NE...Watson Bros...16lbs 6oz...24”
700(3 ½)...Wilkins & Co...17lbs 8oz...25 5/8”
8-Bore(BP)...JW Tolley...16lbs...24”
8 Bore...Holland & Holland...13lbs 12oz...26”
8 bore(3 Ό)...Manton...17lbs 8oz...26”
8 bore(3 Ό)...Jeffery...16lbs 4oz
8 bore...Thomas Bland...16lbs 12oz...26"
4 bore...Thomas Bland...16lbs 8oz...27"

I found it very interesting that there were so many 450/400's and 8 Bores for sale out there currently.

I'm totally captivated by this double rifle. So if anyone wants to buy it and send it my way I'd be eternally gratefull .

BB

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: Marrakai]
      #50401 - 21/02/06 01:41 AM

I would like to take this opportunity to voice agreement with Marrakai that the .500 is too much gun for enjoyable everyday shooting. It takes concentration and discipline to shoot the .500. In some ways it is like sparring with another man who knows how to use his fists - you know you are going to get belted, but you must accept that in order to get your hit in.

However, the .500 can be made to be very comfortable to shoot. I shoot a 500 grain cast lead bullet (not 570 grain) over 45.0 grains XMP5744 for a very comfortable practice load out of the .500 NE. It's plenty of power for taking ordinary game such as deer, elk, moose, pigs, kangaroos, and donkeys, but is still a lot of fun.

As for weight on a .500, I would not want one over 11 pounds as it gets hard to carry on a long stalk (more than 10 miles).

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: 500grains]
      #50412 - 21/02/06 03:47 AM

500grains,

Great load

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Judson
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Reged: 21/09/05
Posts: 192
Loc: St. Albans Maine U.S.A.
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50495 - 22/02/06 01:47 AM


One rough rule for weight that has worked out well for the bigger rifles I build is two pounds of weight or a bit more, per thousand pounds of energy. This makes for a comfortable rifle to shoot. Using this formula you will find that the .450 guns should weigh around 10+ pounds which from the other posts seems about right.


--------------------
It is the small calibers that are the biggest bores.

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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Which chambering 470NE, 475 #2 NE,or 500 NE? [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #50509 - 22/02/06 04:39 AM

Colorado, I would WAG 1400 fps.

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