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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 500Nitro]
      #62692 - 20/09/06 12:32 AM

Hi

Well,just cant find any stats on it.......is it a more potent round than the 577x3,or very very similar?

I found the nitro round yes,and its for sale.....same gun as your friend isnt it 500nitro? for sale as a '577x31/4 magnum' and cordite load.

Seems impossible to find the 577x3 1/4 BP data,or any gun mentioned either....was it a flop?

Thanks

Ben

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: empirevr]
      #62702 - 20/09/06 03:50 AM

Loads ranged from 160 grains black with a 560 grain bullet to 167 grains black with a 650 grain bullet. The 177 grain load mentioned earlier in this string is one I've never seen listed.

The 3 1/4" .500 and .577 were never particularly common.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #62703 - 20/09/06 04:31 AM

Hi

Thankyou

Was there any difference in velocity or muzzle energy?

Thanks.

Ben

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50Calshtr
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Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 119
Loc: Southeast Georgia
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: empirevr]
      #62729 - 20/09/06 12:27 PM

Bill Flemming's book lists numerous loads for 577 3 1/4 BPE, nitro for black and Nitro. The BPE loads range from 160 gr BP/560 gr bullet to 167 gr bp/650 gr bullet. Nitro for black loads were 65 gr cordite/560 gr bullet to 75 gr cordite/650 gr bullet. Nitro loads were 90 gr cordite/650 gr bullet to 100 gr cordite/750 gr bullet. He speculates the long case fell out of favor because the shorter 3" rounds could do the same without the extra length. No velocity or energy figures were given. Hope this helps.

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 50Calshtr]
      #62761 - 21/09/06 12:32 AM

hi '50

Thankyou,that helps a lot.

Besides i do not fancy trying to find cases for 577x 31/4!!! 577x3" is very simple, thanks be to god and H&H for the .577 nitro.........

The thing being that i am weighing up bore rifles etc against the .577......the latter being easy to get cases for,and easy to find in a double rifle, while the former, unless in 12 bore,is a little more tricky......

The .577 is the minimum i think for big big game,of the BP rifles. After this round we go into bore rifles.....the 577 being practically a 20 bore anyway.

Thanks

Ben

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: empirevr]
      #62770 - 21/09/06 02:36 AM

Ben - the .577 BPE was especially well though of for elephant and other African game. Selous himself even said he liked the .450 BPE with hardened heavy bullets and 75gr. of black powder. Now, even though the powder he had was probably better than what we can get today, his velcoity with the 540gr. bullet he mentioned, would not have been over 1,350fps. This 'power' level is exceeeded by the Sharps .45 2-7/8" ctg. of North American buffalo fame. It is indeed, a powerful round, one that fpe deciples don't understand well. It's seemingly low fpe #'s just don't do it credit, nor do they do credit to the even larger bored guns with low numbers like the 16, 14 and 12 bores with normal charges.
: In W.W. Greener's book, an exerpt - " The .577 solid bullet of 650 grains and 6 drachms(drams= 163.8gr.) of powder will produce an estonishing effect, and will completely patalyse the attack of any lion or tiger, thus estabilishing a thorough confidence in the heart of its proprieter." - Samual Baker's quote. Another quote in "The Field" by a different hunter - "My 16 hippopotami out of 17 shots is a matter of history in the Shire Highlands(.577 bpe and hard bullets)
: The .577 charges I have listed are as follows:
: 160gr. powder 480gr. bullet
; 191gr. powder 710gr. bullet
: 191gr. powder 550gr. bullet
: 191gr. powder 600gr. bullet
At first I thought these charges too heavy for that case, however the given ballistics match well to the charges as noted. The 160gr. charge would not give the heavier bullets listed, their recorded velocties, all at or over 1,730fps, even the 710gr.. The 600gr. bullet is recorded at 1,760fps, while the 160gr. charge with the short 480gr. bullet makes 1,780fps. From my own testing in a 14 bore rifle, I found it took a greatly increased charge to make a small difference in velocity as shown in these comparrisons. The whole idea of the .577 bpe, was to give 12 bore ballistics in a smaller, lighter gun, which it did, powder and ball weight, conical for the .577 and round for the 12 bore. What it lacked in smack of the large diameter ball, it made up for in absolute penetration.- imho, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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empirevr
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Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: DarylS]
      #62785 - 21/09/06 04:52 AM

Superb and much appreciated info once again Daryl!

So what ammo types can one use in a BPE rifle anyway?

Mr Tanner would be able to make up the casts/dies??

Can one fire ball from such a gun? (sorry for the ignorance, new to DR's!)

Thankyou

Ben

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50Calshtr
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Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 119
Loc: Southeast Georgia
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: empirevr]
      #62875 - 22/09/06 10:52 AM

Ben,
I'm using nitro for black loads with excellent results as described by Ross Seyfried. Using Bell brass,IMR 4198, 17 gr of dacron, a wad about the size of a soft ball, and a 600 gr bullet from a NEI mould I'm getting 1765 FPS and 1 1/2" groups at 50 yds. The rifle is a Hollis underlever hammer gun, 577 3". I found I had to use mag primers to avoid hang fires rather than standards, probably due to the case size and the amount of powder involved. Tried using Goex black years ago but couldn't get enough in the case to regulate the rifle at the correct velocity. Given the choice I would think the 3" would be the way to go.

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 50Calshtr]
      #62878 - 22/09/06 11:24 AM

Hi '50

Damn.......

Actually that Mick chap who was arrested had a Hollis .577 for just £1600....lock was a Greener and it looked rough though.

I have my eye on a very good condition Lyon & Lyon in .577....hammerless boxlock nn ejector.

May i ask what you paid for yours and what condition it was in?

Thankyou.

Ben

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: 50Calshtr]
      #62892 - 22/09/06 02:48 PM

50Calshtr - Swiss BP is supposed to regulate better than GOEX due to it's 20% increase in pressure/velocity. Seyfried stated is worked in some of his rifles, both singles and doubles, regulating with the stamped loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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50Calshtr
.300 member


Reged: 01/11/05
Posts: 119
Loc: Southeast Georgia
Re: 577 3 1/4 [Re: DarylS]
      #62995 - 25/09/06 09:31 AM

Ben,
I bought the rifle over 20 years ago at a price that was quite dear at the time for someone who wasn't making much at the time as I was. Today that price would probably start a stampede to the seller. Best I can say is look at the current market and remember the value of a nice rifle will appreciate, it may hurt now but in a few years you'll be smiling.
Daryl,
I haven't tried Swiss but I'll be travelling this fall and plan to stop by a dealer who stocks both Swiss and KIK, neither of which are available in my area. A number of BPE shooters seem to be using KIK so I'll get some of both and see which works best. Thanks for the tip. I really like the NFB loads in this rifle but I do have a Manton 577/500 that I want to use black in, the idea of using fillers, even dacron, in a bottle necked case spooks me.
Thanks guys.

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