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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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IronBuck
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA
Making a 458 Win Mag
      #4929 - 14/11/03 05:49 AM

I have been considering turning my Ruger M77 Mark II 300 win mag into a 458 Win mag. This is the early Mark II before they converted it to CRF but I am fairly sure that mine can be turned into CRF. Correct me if I am wrong. The Ruger action is not long enough for the 458 LOTT, and to be honest I am not sure I am up to the recoil of the LOTT. I already have a 375HH and shoot that with no problems but I have never shot anything bigger.

With respect to the 458 Win Mag being "marginal" on game such as Cape Buffalo. How true is this today with the better bullets and powder that we have? I would plan on using this rifle for a Cape Buffalo hunt some day. Elephant hunting is way out of my league financially......but still a dream

Should I pursue the 458 winmag or try another caliber that would fit a standard action? Suggestions? I really like the Ruger actions. Actually more so than my model 70s. The Ruger action looks and feels better to me than the current CRF model 70s. Besides, I already have the spare rifle to use as a base for the project.

I shoot rifles left-handed so this limits my options. I would definitely want a left-handed bolt. This would be my first true Big Bore.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #4931 - 14/11/03 06:08 AM

Despite dire warnings from some people there aren't any flys on the 458. The original problems dealt much more with poor bullets than the slower velocity. With new powders, and even factory loads, 2200fps is available.

Add in the better bullets available now and the 458 is as good as any of the British Calibers. Some people feel that if they don't have the most than they don't have enough.

I have no idea about turning your rifle into a CRF. I think that with enough creativity and money anything is possible. I know a guy who turns Remington 700s into CRF actions. I would check on cost as opposed to buying another action or complete 458.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Robie
.275 member


Reged: 04/04/03
Posts: 61
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #4934 - 14/11/03 07:04 AM

Have you considered .416 Taylor, or .425 Express? They might be better, if you reload. Personally I have nothing against the old .458WM.
Robie J.

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #4936 - 14/11/03 09:23 AM

IronBuck
Yes the early Mk II Rugers can be converted to CRF quite easily and I've seen a few that have been done.
I agree with mickey that the 458 is a very good cartridge.
Bear in mind that the 470 NE pushed a 500 gn bullet at 2125 fps and this cartridge has a very good reputation.
The interesting point here is that the 2125 fps was from a 31 inch barrel so 470's with 24 or 26 inch barrels are running well under that original velocity and they still get the job done.
I,ve played with the 458 a bit and there are a few things I learnt the hard way.
Usually a fair amount of work is needed to get the feed reliable.
That big blunt 500 gn bullet is almost the same diameter as the chamber and wont find its way in as easy as a spitzer bullet in 300 mag.
Also the bullets in the magazine cop a real pounding from recoil and when using softs the exposed lead gets flattened out and this can hinder the feed also.
Don't know what stock you intend to use but the Ruger has a small recoil lug on the action and in hard kickers the wood usually breaks behind the lug unless the area has been strengthened and epoxy bedded properly.
458's with timber stocks really need a second lug on the barrel and bedded to the forend.

The Ruger scope mounts are a good strong design and will handle the 458 no worries but can benefit from a bit of fine tuning.

The old MK I Ruger 77 factory 458's were fitted with a steel floorplate and trigger guard and these were available for sale and could be fitted as a replacement to the cr*p metal ones.
This may also apply to the MK II's and can add a little extra strength and weight where it's needed.

Yeah, go for it I reckon.


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IronBuck
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: 4seventy]
      #4939 - 14/11/03 02:23 PM

Wow, thanks for all the input! There is a local gunsmith here in Pennslvania that has had rifles featured in "Rifle" magazine ny the name of Gary Stiles. I spoke to him about this project several years ago but never jumped on it. I think that I may do this as a winter project after the hunting season this year. He has made many bigbore boltactions over the years. I also read that he was making his own double rifle. I am curious to find out how that went.

I am thinking of having an English Walnut stock.Ebony forend tip, barrel band front sight and express type rear but with only (1) blade. I will never need all the added leafs I've seen.....all the way to 300 yards! Gary also suggested beefing up the recoil lug and putting a rod through the grip to keep it from cracking. Open sights are what I will have on this gun. I may get a peep sight that mounts to the Ruger rear scope base. I know that I had seen these somewhere. I think all in all I can get a very traditional "African" rifle put together for a decent price.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #4940 - 14/11/03 02:53 PM

IronBuck

Now that you have opened the door you will be required to post pictures of the work in progress.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #4942 - 14/11/03 03:08 PM

IronBuck
NECG makes a peep to fit the Ruger and I think they have a website or otherwise Brownells also stock them.
Even though you don't intend to use a scope, the fact that Rugers have the integral bases and detachable rings means that you could keep a little scope (with rings attached) handy just in case.
Something like a 1-4 or 1 1/2- 5 Leup would be my choice.
Just a thought.

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IronBuck
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: 4seventy]
      #4946 - 14/11/03 11:50 PM

A low power scope in rings ready to go would be a good thing. I have several 1-4 power Leupolds lying around. And the strength of the Ruger Base system would be a bonus for the 458.

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magnum308
.275 member


Reged: 19/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #16208 - 25/06/04 10:26 PM

Ironbuck,

They are fun rifles to have. My brother had a 458 WM some years ago on a Ruger M77 and it was fun to shoot. I have a 375 Chatfield-Taylor on a Ruger M77 fitted with a 2-7X33 Leupold (gives good eye relief). I have had this rifle for years but only a week ago decided to work up some serious loads. It shot very close to MOA at 100 yards from the bench (not all that pleasant from the bench) but at least I didn't flinch. One day I'll get after Water Buffalo in the Northern Territory (of Australia). Might bring it over to the US of A and use it on bear some day too.

You don't need a reason to have a big bore just a passion to have one.

Magnum308

--------------------
____________________________________________
Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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IronBuck
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: magnum308]
      #16246 - 27/06/04 01:56 AM

Mag308:

Good luck on those buff!

Update on my 458. I have a friend who is a gunsmith & opened his own shop working on it. I changed my plans of using my existing rifel but instead purchased (2) new Ruget LH stainless/Laminated rifles. One mag & one standard action. I am having a pair of working guns made up. One in 458 win mag & the other in 35 whelen. I decided on SS & laminate for durability. My practical hunters

I still want a classic style walnut stocked big bore some day. Maybe I'll go with a M70 & have a 416 rem or 458 Lott made. Just to have more than anything. With teh prive of Buff hunts I'll be lucky to do that more than once or twice in my lifetime.

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cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #16445 - 06/07/04 09:53 AM

I agree with Mickey,though I,m no dangerous game guru having never realy shot any. From what Ive read ,the old bullets were pretty crap compared to the newer 500 gn woodleighs. I know with my 458 win using modern powders (ADI AR2206)I got close to 2200 fps with no signs of high presure. With modern 500gn bullets and beating the 2100 fps barrier it cant be too bad.

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RobertD
.275 member


Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 67
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #16594 - 12/07/04 09:03 AM

Iron Buck:

I had a 458 Win made up by Fred Zeglin, who did a great job on it. It shot four shots at just 3/4 inches at 100 yards with Hornady's orginal steel core 500g FMJ.

I had a custom leade put in mine of only 0.2 inches, so I hit 2004 fps with the min loading of H4895. That was chronographed, too. I haven't chrono'd the higher loadings, but I do have some made up. Next time at the range will be a big bore event... :-)

The nice thing about the 458 bore are all the great bullets for it. Not only does Woodleigh make a great 500g but Barnes has some good ones, too. The Barnes 400g and 450g are especially interesting for the 458 WM. However, do consider Hornady's 350g round nose for the states. It can be loaded to 2400 fps and that bullet functions well on game all the way down to 1800 fps. Their 300g FP is another good option, with a velocity range of 1600 to 2100 fps. The 458 will push that a whole lot faster than 2100 fps, but you can download it to 2100 fps and still have an excellent game cartride.

Lastly, you can load up 45-70 bullets as plinkers as well as cast bullets! and plinking with a big bore is something entirely different if you haven't tried this before.

RobertD

--------------------
NRA Life Member
CRPA Life Member
SCI Golden Gate Member

"Time is never found, if you want time for something, you have to make it."

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Rockfish
.224 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 17
Loc: Sneads Ferry, NC, USA...
Re: Making a 458 Win Mag [Re: IronBuck]
      #16808 - 16/07/04 09:58 PM

http://www.laser-cast.com/

http://www.castperformance.com/

here are 2 outfits I've had excellent results with for hardcast bullets in 459 dia... a big ole wide flat nose @1900fps and the whitetail won't know what got hold of them... and talk about ground hog medicine, hah that'll cure what ails'em...

--------------------
375 H&H... one world, one caliber...

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