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Lee440
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Reged: 06/01/06
Posts: 47
Loc: Texas
Questions about early Searcy double rifles?
      #45927 - 07/01/06 02:10 AM

I am new here, although I have been lurking around for the last year trying to learn more about double rifles. I have several English double shotguns and I would love to have a double rifle to take to Tanzania this year after Buff, but with expenses mounting, I just can't justify the price right now. I have seen these early Searcy rifles come up like the one on GA right now for $6900 which seems high to me and, apparently , to most others. What is a fair price for one in very good shape, and what are the drawbacks of these guns? The single trigger can be replaced, but at what cost? To me, if the price was lower, the attraction of having a "working gun" by a U.S. maker that could service it, if necessary, is a plus. I am also not too worried about it from an investment standpoint, I'd just like to get into a decent DG double in time for my trip. Any advice you could give would be appreciated! Thanks, Lee.

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400NitroExpress
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Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #45935 - 07/01/06 04:58 AM

In that price range, just buy a nice used Merkel. Comes with double triggers. Closer to ideal than a converted BSS.
-----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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bobc
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #45936 - 07/01/06 04:59 AM

I hear Carter's County on I-10 has had a Merkel 470 around for ages and may be willing to deal. Bob

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Lee440
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Posts: 47
Loc: Texas
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: bobc]
      #45938 - 07/01/06 05:39 AM

I appreciate the replies, but I am not interested in a Merkle. I doubt I could get a used Merkle in the 5k price range. Some of the same issues(or non-issues) apply to both the Merkle and Searcy, ie: hardened "shotgun" actions used in the construction. I have a line on a early Searcy and would like advice as outlined in my initial post. Thanks again for the help! Lee.

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Rusty
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #45940 - 07/01/06 05:41 AM

Lee,
I know where there's an A. Hollis and Son 450/400 3inch that could be borrowed for a hunt!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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Lee440
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Rusty]
      #45942 - 07/01/06 05:49 AM

Rusty, see my post on borrowed guns! I get sentimental about guns real quick, especially if I used it on a sucessful hunt! I would have zero bargaining power after that, while trying to convince you to sell it to me!

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clark7781
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Reged: 28/10/04
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #45948 - 07/01/06 06:13 AM

Lee:

I would recommend that you contact Butch directly. Even if you are buying one of his guns second hand, he'll give you the straight skinny on it, with no BS thrown in.

I know he'll answer any question you have about it.

www.searcyent.com



--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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Lee440
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Posts: 47
Loc: Texas
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: clark7781]
      #46031 - 08/01/06 06:48 AM

I am kind of disapointed that there has not been more response, though I guess most of the experience here is with English rifles. I talked to Mr. Searcy previously, about it and he gave me just the bare bones information. I have read on this forum and others about shotgun actions, even reworked ones like the Merkle, not holding up to heavy use in large calibers. I recently talked to a well known expert on double rifles and he advised me that these type of guns shoot loose fairly quickly. I like to gather as much information as possible before making what could be a large investment. I have no reason to doubt this expert, but would like to hear from some other folks that also have had first hand experience. I shoot quite a lot, and if I had a double, trust me, it will be shot a lot. Many Merkle owners are very happy with their gun, but how many have actually shot over 500 rounds through them? Getting real information on this subject, as opposed to opinions by folks with no first hand knowledge is pretty hard to do. This is not written to try to offend anyone or their favorite brand of rifle, I am just trying to learn enough to keep from making an expensive mistake!!

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new_guy
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #46039 - 08/01/06 09:47 AM

In reply to:

have read on this forum and others about shotgun actions, even reworked ones like the Merkle, not holding up to heavy use in large calibers. I recently talked to a well known expert on double rifles and he advised me that these type of guns shoot loose fairly quickly.



Yes, we've all heard about this, but in fairness the the Merkel (and the Rigbys built on 20ga Merkel shotgun frames) no one seems to have seen one personally in which there have been such problems.

Personally, it sounds like Elvis & UFO sightings to me... lots of talk about it but no tangible evidence to prove it.



--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #46043 - 08/01/06 10:19 AM

Lee,

I have a Merkel .375 H&H that I shot well over 500 Barnes TSX rounds through. That's right the dreaded high pressure cartridge with monolithic bullets. It is still very tight.

Here is the simple truth. Gun dealers have contracts with importers to move a certain amount of iron, or the get dropped. The dealer (salesman) does not give a shit about you, only the sale. Ask him what he owns. It's doubtfully he has a gun worth more than $1000. These guys can never dream of owning a gun worth $10,000. They probably have never seen one. Do your research, and listen to the men (and Ann) on this site who have the most experience you will find anywhere.

Here is my advice:

http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/frm_inventory1.htm

He has a nice Merkel 9,3x74R for $5495.00 and many fellows here will attest to the effectiveness of the cartridge on DG.

Blair

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Grizzly
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Reged: 05/12/05
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Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: bonanza]
      #46048 - 08/01/06 11:01 AM

The early Searcy DR's ain't the new ones. Butch has continues to improve his line and he is not a man to stop improving. Hell, now, he just took his underlever off the market because he is working on a rising third bite and he is using a $20,000 rifle for a prototype.

And if you read some of the other threads, he has a new rounded receiver that has impressed even some of the tea sippers.

In short, Searcy started out small but has really made giant leaps in his quality.

Would I buy one of his early rifles? Don't know. But I surely would not want to be judged for the rest of my life on what I was like in my 20's. Nor, would I think would anyone else here.

I am much more mature now (meaning I am slower, fatter and not as good looking) but I have improved with each year!

I wholeheartedly agree with Bonanza, and Ben, Adam, Hoss and Little Joe (and Hop Sing). You will hear the same from an Outfitter or Guide.

Ever bought a used car? That's the ticket.

If it were I, I would use that money for a deposit on a new Searcy. The man is like a fine wine - he is improving with age. And he really is a student of the DR.

Look, the man has his shop in Boron CA. Not a whole lot to do in Boron, aside from the flight jocks at EAFB. So Butch has a lot of time to be the man in American doubles. And he is just about there.

Bonanza, I am still working on your "Chuck hunt. Please make sure your life insurance policy is up to date.






--------------------
SCI Life Member
DSC Life Member
DRSS Member

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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Grizzly]
      #46052 - 08/01/06 01:06 PM

Lee,
If I were ordering a NIB 450/400 3 inch with proper 26" barrels it would be a Searcy in a heartbeat! Butch is a standup guy and I feel he makes the best American made double rifle on the market.

Having said that, I'm still a huge fan of older English doubles.



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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Lee440
.224 member


Reged: 06/01/06
Posts: 47
Loc: Texas
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Rusty]
      #46073 - 08/01/06 03:32 PM

Thanks for all the replies, I just realized when reading the last few, that I did not mention, and some folks may not realize, the the early Searcy double rifles were built on a rehardned Browning SXS shotgun action, which is far different than his made for double rifle action that he is currently producing! I apologize for leaving that out!
That is the question that I am trying to find the answer for, are these early guns durable for the long haul, or should I just forget it. For further clarity on my interest in these, I have a line on one that by some possible gun trading and selling off a few weapons from my collection, I would basically be out no cash in acquiring it which I cannot say about buying just about anything else on the used market. Since I am going in Sept. on the hunt, If I could pick up something servicable and not be much out of pocket, it would not have to be cleared through the War Dept! That is my interest in learning about these specific rifles. Thanks again! Lee.

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new_guy
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #46076 - 08/01/06 03:50 PM

I'm sure butch would stand behind one of his earlier BSS guns. Call him and ask.

So if the price is right (for me that's around 4K-4500 & closer to 4K) then I don't see what you have to lose.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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bonanza
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #46091 - 09/01/06 12:24 AM

What is the chambering?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Lee440
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: bonanza]
      #46094 - 09/01/06 01:12 AM

It is chambered in .470 NE.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #46129 - 09/01/06 06:12 AM

In reply to:


I appreciate the replies, but I am not interested in a Merkle. I doubt I could get a used Merkle in the 5k price range. Some of the same issues(or non-issues) apply to both the Merkle and Searcy, ie: hardened "shotgun" actions used in the construction.



Lee440 , the Merkel is NOT made on a hardened shotgun action, PERIOD! All Merkel actions are hardened the same way, and are hard enough for the double rifle cartridges, they are chambered for, and stand up to bolt rifle rounds they are also chambered for! If anything the Merkel SHOTGUNS, are made on RIFLE actions! It makes no difference where a double rifle is made, or who makes it, all are built on hard enough actions! There is no difference in the design of a A&D action made for a double rifle from one made for a shotgun. In a factory where the same actions are used for all their double rifles, or shotguns, all a hardened the same way,to handle the highest pressures they will be subjected to, not re-hardened!

This rumor was started by poeple who had something they wanted to sell, and couldn't meet the lower price of the compition,of work done in a poor country, and it holds no water! Forums like these repeteing this misconception, does nothing to help.

You may buy what ever you want, it's your money, but if you are turning down a Merkel double rifle because of this rumor, you are doing yourself a disservice!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Lee440
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #46130 - 09/01/06 06:33 AM

I really appreciate the replies, But NONE of them ANSWER the questions that I initially asked; IE; Does anyone own, know somebody, heard a rumor or anything else about the quality, durability, and dependability of the early Searcy .470 rifles built on the Browning BSS shotgun action? This is all I am really trying to find out, not spread rumors about Merkles quality. I have not been offered a Merkle, Have no interest in one at this time! I even replied again and cleared up all aspects of why I wanted to know about the early Searcy, that I had a line on one for a reasonable price and that I am trying to do my homework before buying, because as I have read on here so often, you really need to thoroughly check out all aspects of any double that you are contemplating the purchase of. I will not take the word of only one person, if there are others out there that have knowledge. That is why I posted this question here, to utilize the vast experience of folks that know far more than I do about these types of rifles, before I jump off and invest in something that might not be viable in the long term. I really would like to get some input as I am running out of time! Can anyone direct me to an unbiased expert or dealer that could answer my questions? Thanks. Lee.

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mbogo375
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #46152 - 09/01/06 10:26 AM

Lee440,

A fair number of years ago I considered buying a Searcy/Browning conversion (might even be the one you are looking at now, as I wouldn't think there weren't a tremendous number of these done ). At the time I researched the few that I could find info on, and the "unsubstantiated rumor" was that the 470 was at the very upper end of the durability range for that action.

I wasn't happy that it had a single trigger. On top of that, I wasn't overly impressed with the looks of the conversion aesthetically. It looked more like a chunky shotgun than a rifle to me. I also didn't care for the look of the scope mounting system that was installed on the rifle I considered. I do not regret passing on it.

I certainlly can't tell you whether to get it or not, and I can't tell you how durable it really is. I hope this SMALL bit of personal info might be of some use.

Jim

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500grains
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: mbogo375]
      #46160 - 09/01/06 12:01 PM

Does that one have a Weaver scope base???

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bulldog563
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: 500grains]
      #46167 - 09/01/06 01:39 PM

Why not just spring for the extra 2600 and get the PH? I bet you could have it by september if you order before SCI.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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mickey
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: bulldog563]
      #46170 - 09/01/06 01:45 PM

For $2600 there is no debate. Get the new one.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Lee440
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: mickey]
      #46177 - 09/01/06 02:28 PM

Mbogo375, thank you very much for your personal insights! I am beginning to think that only two of them were made, the one that sold on Guns America this week and the one I have yet to see(soon though) Thanks also for the pictures, very helpful. I saw these rifles advertised at least as far back as '93 in Double Gun Journal and would have figured they were more common than they apparently are. Leave it to me to come across an "Orphan" on my first deal!
Again, thanks! Lee.

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NE450No2
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Re: Questions about early Searcy double rifles? [Re: Lee440]
      #46202 - 09/01/06 04:51 PM

Lee
A friend of mine has an early Searcy Browning conversion in 470.
His rifle is VERY ornate, with engraving several gold animals etc. It is fairly light for a 470. I have shot and it shoots good. He has not shot if a lot so I cannot give you any info on service life.
I would call Butch and talk to him.

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