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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Rigby quality [Re: Peterb]
      #44531 - 21/12/05 04:56 PM


PeterB

You argument is NOT flawed but 100% correct re Merkel / Rigby's.

To be honest, I think the people who bought "Rigby" the name thought
they could sell them on the name alone - based on the fact that US buyers
used to buy DR's etc on name alone - however I think there timing was
flawed in that the market became very educated and as an example,
US buyers now realise that just because it says Army and Navy
does not mean it's no good as they now see it as a long bar Webley
(PHV1 or Screw Grip).

500 Nitro

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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: Rigby quality [Re: 500Nitro]
      #44536 - 21/12/05 06:02 PM

I haven't seen any of the Mexican Rigby rifles in person, but I don't think the people who bought Rigby are that stupid. I do think they bought the name and then decided they would try to improve upon it and came up with a loser.

If you want to nit pick from a logical standpoint you should be asking if they are purchasing complete unfinished Merkels and then applying whatever fancy finish they think is acceptable. And of the complaints with Searcys, the more I hear, the more I think that the complaintants haven't seen a recent Searcy.

Personally when I started wanting a double rifle, I wanted either a Rigby or a Westley Richards. That was based on reputation alone. I thought that all the other doubles, whether European or American, were just trashy copies of the English guns. The first Rigby I saw was a real disappointment because it was JUNK and I was proud of having "spotted a fake"...then the second Rigby was the same...and the third. The engraving was nice and pretty but the guns were junk. After doing my homework, the English guns came in last place and that wasn't just because of the cost. Searcy was the absolute last maker I thought I'd be interested in but I've decided to spend my money on Searcy, and Searcy has become my first and only choice and anyone would be hard pressed to sell me on any other double rifle. To be blunt about it, some research indicated that I was mistaken to think that the English makers were as good as their reputation.

Grade on art if you wish, or performance if you wish, but don't confuse those criteria.

And all the comments about Americans thinking they know something and are unwilling to change is getting old. Remember 30 years ago all the cops in the USA carried Colt or S&W revolvers? Quality dropped through the floor on those revolvers and almost every cop in the USA instantly switched to mostly European made semi automatics in a heartbeat. Hell Texas Rangers and Texas DPS carry SIG's. So how is the American consumer prejudiced? Most Americans buy what works and don't care if it is made by an American or a German or an Aussie or a Chinaman.

Richard

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Rigby quality [Re: rgp]
      #44538 - 21/12/05 06:13 PM

I agree with your statement. Americans buy what they feel works the best. Maybe I should say Americans with any sense buy what they feel works the best. If someone outside the US makes a product that meets my criteria better then the US offerings you can bet my money is goin there. If it is in the US all the better as I do try to support the economy but it will not be the deciding factor unless all other things are equal.

I also chose a Searcy. Someone like Butch giving his word he will stand behind his rifles gives Searcy rifles a big plus in my book. And its in California.

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Rigby quality [Re: rgp]
      #44542 - 21/12/05 06:59 PM


rgp,

I think your first statement contracdicts itself.
"I do think they bought the name and then decided they
would try to improve upon it and came up with a loser."

How can they improve on it by bringing out a renamed Merkel
when they would have been competing against Webley actions and
Rigby Bissell Rising third bite actions ?

IMHO, What you effectively said without saying it is that they were
trying to pass off a lesser gun by using the Rigby name.

As to bringing in Searcy into the conversation, my comments were not directed
at Searcy at all and if you read my past posts, I am very cautious with what I say
Searcy - not because I don' like them but because I don't have enough personal
experience with them - however people opinions on this forum that I do value
I am happy to go along with.

Re English guns - I have also seen some English Junk and I think you may
suffer from alot of dealers in the US passing off crap as good - particularly in
the period where everything was being bought quickly.

500 Nitro

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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: Rigby quality [Re: 500Nitro]
      #44544 - 21/12/05 07:24 PM

500 Nitro,

Actually I believe that there is more English junk in the USA than there is in other countries, mainly because of a large number overzealous gun dealers who want to make an easy profit. The English guns I saw in some shops in Australia were definitely better on average than the English guns I've seen in the USA.

I'm not certain how my first statement contradicts itself but I'm currently somewhat doped with an Elvis cocktail with medications for my back so might not be thinking straight...I thought that the statement says overall that they made a mistake while believing they could make an improvement. Look at their rifles from a usage standpoint...they are made with weird stocks much like you have on a modern wood stocked M70 Winchester with the comb angled backwards.

Also I have to be in Melb in January or February, contact me via pm if you want anything from the USA that I can legally haul in my luggage.

Richard.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Rigby quality [Re: rgp]
      #44546 - 21/12/05 08:19 PM


rgp

Thanks for the offer - if I had my paperwork done you could have
bought over all of my DR's and Shotguns that are in SF. I'll actually
be in the US myself in Feb.

Re "Actually I believe that there is more English junk in the USA than
there is in other countries, mainly because of a large number overzealous
gun dealers who want to make an easy profit."

I totally agree with this statement - when I was at one of the Antique Arms shows
a few years back, I saw more US$8 - 10,000 Purdey's than I could believe existed and
most I would say were not worth touching - pre 1910, Worn Engraving, No colour
and probably out of proof.

The other reason alot of crap ended up in the US is that during the "hey day" when
the level of interest in English guns took off, alot the Out of Proof guns (mainly Shotguns)
in the UK got shipped to the US as you don't have proof laws that have to be abided by and
all that was needed was a quick tart up, possible re colour (albeit by your very good re
colour case hardeing company over there) and it was sold by the dealers.

Then the exchange rate changed aginst importing from other cuntries
as well asevery body (consumers) became more knowledgeable so weren't
as easily duped.

Re your trip to Aus, PM me closer to the time and we'll see if
we can arrange a get together in Melbourne or Sydney or wherever
you end up in Australia. I can generally tie in some business interstate if
you are not coming to Melbourne.

IF you come to Melbourne, we can go and shoot a few doubles if interested !!!

Anyway, let me know.

500 Nitro

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