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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Double Rifle blank
      #44179 - 17/12/05 05:04 AM

500Nitro asked me to show this stock and ask for an idea of value and thoughts of suitability for a DR blank.. He will fill you in on the details about caliber etc I think.






--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3496
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: mickey]
      #44226 - 17/12/05 11:26 AM

That's a very nice stick indeed!

If its to be used on a double rifle, the metalwork would need to be very well adorned to 'keep up'. It always looks strange to me to have a plain boxlock fitted-up with wood of that quality. These days most newly-made DG-calibre DRs are workhorses which will be carried a lot in the hunting-car and through the thorn, occasionally soaked in sweat, rain, and blood, etc. Of course they should look good, but the days of the Maharajah posers are over!

The blank would be more at home on a fully-engraved British-style 12-bore game-gun than any rifle IMHO. Then it can be displayed to best effect, standing on the line in a gentlemanly fashion waiting for the beaters!





--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Marrakai]
      #44241 - 17/12/05 01:54 PM


I was thinking of putting it on a 470 or 500 NE.

Would also be interested to know what people think it is worth ?

Thanks For your responses.

500 Nitro

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: mickey]
      #44242 - 17/12/05 01:58 PM

Looks about perfect to me if the off side is as well laid out. The action area is strong. It flows down through the wrist. A DR usually has a bit more wrist drop which would likely make a weak area at the grip point, but most have grip caps which add the strength to counteract this (that and looks are why they are there). The butt is wild as it must be for a man's gun. Plain wood is fer sissies only. (This opinion has nothing to do with me being a stock seller) One must always remember that plain wood gets you the ugliest girls and also causes cancer and socialist leanings. The fiddle in the wrist does not cause weakness like burl or feather does. Really fine blank. Poor grain flow in the wrist can reduce strength up to 95% according to Mark's Engineering Handbook. This is a good one.

As for price, $1000-1500 is reasonable. Beware if it was "dried" in Turkey.

Edited by Peterb (17/12/05 02:01 PM)

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Peterb]
      #44255 - 17/12/05 03:26 PM

That blank looks a lot like another blank I saw a while back that was true Russian Circasian Walnut. Anyone have experience working with this type of wood?

--------------------
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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: bulldog563]
      #44262 - 17/12/05 03:44 PM

It could be from anywhere. For example, the Turks buy wood from Turkey, Russia, and Pakistan...even America. Hard to tell where this one came from. The drying process of boiuling and hot steaming is the problem.

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Peterb]
      #44264 - 17/12/05 03:49 PM

If it were one versus the others what would be the difference?

--------------------
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https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Peterb]
      #44265 - 17/12/05 03:52 PM


Peterb

Thanks for your response. Your summary is very
similar to what I thought.

It's supposed to be Russian Circasian Walnut.

Any further comment ?

500 Nitro

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: 500Nitro]
      #44267 - 17/12/05 04:05 PM

Walnut overlaps in properties. See if you can sink a thumbnail into it. Ask about guarantees in case problems are found when it is turned. Most problems are found with feathers with voids and bark inclusions. I am guessing this will be an excellent blank.

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Peterb]
      #44268 - 17/12/05 04:09 PM

By the way, I value by the individual blank. I really don't care where they are from. The Turks call all their wood Circassian even though it is not. It is their boiling/steaming process that is the problem.

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rgp
.333 member


Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Peterb]
      #44269 - 17/12/05 04:10 PM

I was going to suggest whacking it with a hammer to see how tough it is until I saw the suggestion of trying to sink a thumbnail into it...

Richard

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: rgp]
      #44271 - 17/12/05 04:21 PM

I think it is a beautiful peice of wood. One of the nicest I have seen.

Peter, do you see blanks nicer then this regularly?

--------------------
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https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: bulldog563]
      #44297 - 18/12/05 05:26 AM

I see lots of nice blanks when I cut them but the best sell the fastest regardless of the price. It is also hard to keep them as many will want to buy them wet because they go so fast when they are dry. They just don't last long. English only takes about a year to dry and another year to stabilize when in a dry climate. That blank looks like it might be a rifle blank. The layout is good for a rifle, too.

What most don't realize is that you can get VERY nice English for about $300 (from a few dealers). It is not exhibition but beautiful, nonetheless.

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mbogo375
.275 member


Reged: 09/02/04
Posts: 68
Loc: southeastern Georgia
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Peterb]
      #44303 - 18/12/05 07:43 AM

In reply to:

Looks about perfect to me if the off side is as well laid out. The action area is strong. It flows down through the wrist. A DR usually has a bit more wrist drop which would likely make a weak area at the grip point, but most have grip caps which add the strength to counteract this (that and looks are why they are there). The butt is wild as it must be for a man's gun. Plain wood is fer sissies only. (This opinion has nothing to do with me being a stock seller) One must always remember that plain wood gets you the ugliest girls and also causes cancer and socialist leanings. The fiddle in the wrist does not cause weakness like burl or feather does. Really fine blank. Poor grain flow in the wrist can reduce strength up to 95% according to Mark's Engineering Handbook. This is a good one.



Peterb,
Nice assessment of figured wood, and it's value to society . As for good grain flow, as you so rightly point out, it does not always go hand-in-hand with figure . Since we are evaluating blanks, I have had these four blanks lying around for about 30 years (guess they might be dry enough by now ). These are all pretty much equivalent on the offsides as well, and the lighter areas on the middle two blanks are obviously due to the flash. My thought is that one of them might be suitable for a rifle of reasonable recoil due to grain flow and wood density, but I wonder what your opinion would be.

I would think that a couple of them might be better suited to a straight grip shotgun, and the other might be OK for a rifle of lesser recoil. I really don't have any specific use in mind for them. Any input gentlemen?


500Nitro,
You have a very nice blank there. I would love to see a photo of the completed stock, and the intermediate steps as well. Please keep us updated on the progress.

I apologize for cluttering up your thread with my lesser quality wood.

Jim

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banzaibird
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/05
Posts: 358
Loc: S.C. Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: mbogo375]
      #44304 - 18/12/05 07:50 AM

mbogo,

Ugly wood..just ugly. If you send me the top and last blanks I'll be sure to properly dispose of them .

I really like the top blank. How about a pic of the other sides.

BB

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: mbogo375]
      #44307 - 18/12/05 08:05 AM


mbogo,

Your welcome to clutter up my post anytime !!!

Just send me one of the blanks as payment !!!

Hope to see you in Las Vegas.

500 Nitro

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: 500Nitro]
      #44316 - 18/12/05 09:59 AM

How rare is true Russian Circasian if it really does come from Russia and what are the benefits of this type of wood? I have heard that it is highly desirable and very difficult to get. What do you think peterb?

--------------------
Join the National Rifle Association:
https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: mickey]
      #44328 - 18/12/05 11:40 AM

500Nitro:

Great piece of lumber you have there. Anyidea of its moisture level at this point? Was it air dried?

Also, is the correct term for the fiddling "marble cake?"

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: mbogo375]
      #44333 - 18/12/05 12:17 PM

Beautiful blanks. They appear to be Claro with the second from the top possible Bastogne. Batogne is a cross between English and Claro. They can be recrossed for at least two more generations. When this is done, the resulting wood gets closer in looks to the most dominant parent. You can also see the English in a part of one blank with Claro is another part. Makes for interesting blanks. Sometimes, like English, much of the Bastogne tree can be as white as maple. This is not sap wood.

The top two have the forearm grain going upwards instead of straight, but that is OK. You don't want it going down for accuracy reasons. The third might better be a two-piece due to the forearm. The bottom would be fastest selling for many people. "Winchester" feather pattern as it lays now. The advantage of English over Claro and black and Bastogne is machinability. The others tend to chip. English can be worked faster with bigger teeth with less care. English is also less dense on the average and better for lightweight game guns.

Circassian has gotten a good rep over the decades. The dark lines are wide; it is dense; and the color might be best described as caramel rather than the yellow of later French. Early French was dark grey. Favorite producing types change over the centuries. Current French is mainly "Francotte". Circassian resembles "Mayotte". There are very many varieties. They are all Jurglans Regia. These include English, Himalayan, Moroccan, Turkish, NZ, Australian, etc. The densest English in the experience of David Trevallion is Australian and West Coast USA English. Of course, density and other characteristics overlap and age adds "temper" which hardens the blanks. This is not so important to stocks but adds tone and is better for musical instruments.

Prolly more than you wanted to know.

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: Peterb]
      #44488 - 21/12/05 07:16 AM

In reply to:

Prolly more than you wanted to know.



Not at all! Thanks for the info!

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Taylor416
.300 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 161
Loc: Central West, New South Wales....
Re: Double Rifle blank [Re: mbogo375]
      #44742 - 23/12/05 11:54 PM

Very nice stick of timber!!!!

--------------------
Love to hunt!

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