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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Perdersoli Muzzleloaders
      #42398 - 26/11/05 01:29 AM

Gang,

My brother has joined the world for big bore double rifles in the form of a .72 caliber kodiak express double muzzle loader. Anyone have expierince with one?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: bonanza]
      #42451 - 27/11/05 03:20 AM

I'm the brother with the Kodiak Express ML on order. And I really like the Pedersoli 45-70. I've been reading the many threads surrounding this gun. It seems you either love it or hate it. But what we must all agree on is that it is the only affordable DR poor folk like me can hope to purchase.

Jason

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #42455 - 28/11/05 12:03 PM

I think that a more appropriate conclusion would be that...

There are some nice Kodiak DRs in 45-70 and there are some really pitiful dogs of that particular make and model of rifle.

I hope the front-stuffing models are more consistent, more so I hope you get a good one.


Can't wait to hear how it shoots!


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: bonanza]
      #42473 - 29/11/05 04:48 AM

I just picked up a used 58 this summer. It works great with 90grs of FF and round balls, groups them at about 3" at 50 yards.

One day I'll replace the cheesey sights, and get the triggers worked on.


--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: Chasseur]
      #42496 - 29/11/05 10:47 AM

What is the quality of your gun? Have you tried heavier loads? If so how high have your taken it? Does it de-regulate at the higher loads?

Side note, was supposed to go bird shooting yesterday, but if you didn't see on the news, we had 80mph winds!!

What kind of recoil can I expect from this gun in 12 bore?

Thanks,
Jason

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: Chasseur]
      #42499 - 29/11/05 11:14 AM

Chasseur-

Have you chronographed those three inch groups?
Sounds great at three inches at fifty yards.
That's both barrels in one group?

--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: tinker]
      #42547 - 30/11/05 01:44 AM

Tinker and Colorado,

I've not chronied the loads yet. At my range its not easy getting out the chrony (I have to be by myself).

The loads don't work as well if you go 10grs up or down with round balls. I tried 80 and 100 and the groups got larger. For the 3" that's 4 two from each barrel from a sitting rest at 50 yards, my best group, and 4 normally runs 3-4". If I do 6 it normally opens up to 4-5", but that's probably me too and not only the gun.

The quality is pretty good. Its a straight grip gun with blued locks. I picked it up used from a ML forum back in June or so. I've had fun with it, but no deer so far...



--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #42548 - 30/11/05 02:00 AM

This is from a recoil calculator:

9 Lbs .375 H&H = 44 Ft-Lbs
11 Lbs .470 NE = 56 Ft-Lbs

For a 9 lbs ML: and 520Gr round ball.

80Gr = 25 Ft-Lbs (Pussy cat)
100Gr = 38 Ft-Lbs (Nice)
160Gr = 60 Ft-Lbs (Ouch)

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: bonanza]
      #42559 - 30/11/05 04:09 AM

My regular hunting and 100 yard target load in my 9 lb. 14 bore rifle was 165gr. 2F with it's 484gr. round ball. The recoil was no where remotely close to my 8-1/2lb. .458 2" with 400gr. at 2,150fps or 500gr. at 2,060fps. both using 66gr. 4230 powder or 68gr. H335.(my .458 had a 1/2" leade which allowed seating the bullets out. It was equivalent to a 2.4" case with 1/10" leade. The .458 2" figured out to around 58lb. recoil on a formula.
: The BP load had much less 'felt' recoil, even though the rifle had a steel plate. I used to shoot that load up to 60 times a day without so much as discolouring my shoulder. The .458 did.
: BP loads don't seem to work well with modern recoil programs. That said,, a 220gr. charge was very similar to the .458 in felt recoil.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: DarylS]
      #42566 - 30/11/05 06:39 AM

Copied an old post of mine on this topic from the AR board:

I have had Kodiaks in .58 and .72 -- both a lot of fun, but I miss the .72 the most. I found a couple of round ball targets fired over the Oehler chronograph with the .72. Hate to disappoint, but shooting a patched 540-grain .715 round ball over 120 grains Goex Fg and using an RWS musket cap (I put musket nipples on), I show a high of 1,032, low of 996 for an average of 1,009 fps.

Just found some more chronograph notes in the range notebook. The .72 Kodiak gave 880 fps with 120 grains Goex Fg and 1,050 fps with Goex FFg and musket caps shooting an 840-grain conical -- the classic paradox cotton-spool pill, probably from an NEI mould. I also show an average of 1,246 fps with the 540 grain round ball over 150 grains Goex Fg. I have a target showing the single shot I took with that 840-grain conical over 150 grains Goex Fg, but no chrono reading.
By the way, I see notes on the .58 Kodiak showing a .570 Hornady patched round ball over 120 grains Goex FFg and a Remington cap giving an average of 1,651, with an SD of 26.


Hope this is of interest.
I should also note that Jeffe, who sometimes posts here, has one of my old .58s and has gotten over 1400 with heavier minies and Triple 7, but noted that beyond these performance levels the guns are getting a little beat up.
The .72 is much more stoutly built over the chambers, and has a barrel about three inches shorter than the .58s, making it a real natural choice for conicals.

Edited by BillfromOregon (30/11/05 06:43 AM)

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BlainSmipy
.375 member


Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #42653 - 01/12/05 04:40 AM

All,

I received the Kodiak last night, and so far it is what I expected. Fit and finish are good, not great. Wood is what I'd call field grade, but still nice. Barrles are very pretty, blued nicely and shiney. I have no way of accurately measuring thier bore, but they look clean. The reciever looks cast or forged, not machined. The side locks are nicely flush with the wood. Some of the pieces are not perfect fits into the wood, with tiny gaps between the metal and wood, but not bad considering. Checkering is cut, not pressed. The feel of the gun is natural. It points quickly, and has a nice heft to it. I took the barrles off to inspect the stock everything seems fine. It was easy to take apart once I learned the trick. Which is to squeeze the fore stock against the barrles while pushing the cross pin out. I could do this in less that 5 seconds. Sights are, I think, decent quality, and look like the one off a Ruger No#1. Trigger guard and triggers look good, the guard could be finshied a little better I think.

Hopefully this weekend I'll get to shoot it and give a report on it. I'll try to get some photos of it tonight apart and post them up here. I think if it shoots good I'll be happy. If it doesn't, Cabela's has a pretty good return policy, I'll just ship it back.

Jason


--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #42671 - 01/12/05 08:37 AM

Colorado: According to the Dixie catalog, your bores should be close to .724/.732. It took a good smack on the short starter to start a .729 NEI Fosbury conical down the bores of mine.
Are your trigger pulls about equal? This is one area with all the Pedersoli ML double rifles and shotguns I have owned where a visit to a smith for stoning might have paid off.

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #42679 - 01/12/05 10:26 AM

Trigger pulls seem equal and smooth, I'm more concerned with the brass nipples bending and getting flattened. I think I would like to convert them to steel and musket caps.

What is the best way to use/shoot a double hammer gun? I've been told that you never cock both hammers because that will cause a double fire? Any truth to this? Sounds reasonable, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of two quick shots?

Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: BlainSmipy]
      #42710 - 02/12/05 02:45 AM

I've not had any problems with pulling both hammers back and firing the barrels. No doubling so far. I'd pull back both hammers at the range just to make sure there is no worries when you are in the field. If so I'd get some one to look at it.

The triggers on mine are really creepy, so I'll get the locks looked at one day. I'd also like to get a real express sight, and to put about another oz or so in the butt since its so barrel heavy. But then I think is it worth it to put another 400-500 into the gun...

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Edited by Chasseur (02/12/05 02:12 PM)

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: Chasseur]
      #42715 - 02/12/05 03:47 AM

Colorado: Brass nipples? Can't be. They must be Ampco. I have never heard of Pedersoli putting brass nipples on a gun, nor do I think anyone makes them for the very reason you mention. That said, I ordered a set of musket nipples for my Kodiaks from Blomquist Percussion, preferring musket caps for large charges. You'll never get a millisecond's hesitation, even with Pyrodex, when using musket caps.
As to cocking both hammers, the locks are entirely independent and only sear/tumbler fit and hardness issues would cause both hammers to drop at once. I never had this happen to me and I have had two Kodiaks in .58 and one in .72, in addition to 10, 12 and 20-gauge Pedersoli double shotguns. If it happens to you, you'll know you have one or both locks in need of tuning.

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BlainSmipy
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Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA
Re: Perdersoli Muzzleloaders [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #42854 - 03/12/05 04:49 AM

Ampco? Is that a brass looking metal? What ever it is its soft. I accidentally dry fired it and both slightly flatten.

I'm picking up the powder and caps tonight, I also ordered a chrono as well.

Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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