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45s_save_lives
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Reged: 12/11/05
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rechambering cheap doubles
      #41562 - 15/11/05 12:56 PM

Hello again all. Well I was interested in cheap doubles from places like India where they might be more available and unusable, as this would lower the price. I have been advised that this may not be a good idea although I am still interested, ill just have to be careful. Anyways, I have been thinking about the cheap doubles like the Spartan and the Pedersoli. I know you can get them in 45-70 which is a good caliber and a favorite of mine but I want a double in a classic double round. So I was wondering if it would be possable to rechamber one of these guns to a classic caliber, even if it is a black powder round it wouldnt bother me any. Obviously it would have to be a 458" round. I was thinking about one of the 450s Nitro or black powder. Opinions??

--------------------
Better to have and not need than to need and not have.


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tinker
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 45s_save_lives]
      #41577 - 15/11/05 02:20 PM

Nothing wrong with the 45-70
Brass is cheap.
The 45-70 doesn't take as much powder as the bigger cartridges need to do it's trick.

The spartan comes *already chambered* in that round, shooting it as such is avalialbe to you *at no extra charge* as shipped. No fooling around needed. No possibility of screwing the gun up by rechambering it either. Remember, if it came from the factory chambered in a tidy little round like the 45-70, they probabally weren't thinking of setting it up to take three and a half inch brass...
Also consider that brass for those classic rounds usually costs about five bucks apiece.
That's one empty piece of brass for five US dollars.

You can get a bunch of 45-70 brass for five bucks.


That and once you're through rechambering a cheap double, you have what was a cheap double that might end up being a much cheaper but sellable used gun some time later in the future, but much more likely (once hacked) will be a nearly impossible to sell, very ackward piece of iron that you've sunk dough into and find that you can't get back out of.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: tinker]
      #41578 - 15/11/05 02:30 PM

Ditto, Tinker.

Well said!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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davem3
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 45s_save_lives]
      #41623 - 16/11/05 01:25 AM

Even if strength was not a factor, rechambered barrels are not likely to shoot together and the cost of regulation would negate any savings on buying a cheaper gun for the project.
If blackpowder is not a problem, why not look for something like an original .450 BPE?
I have a .500 BPE and it shoots fine with a smokeless for black load. dave


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500Nitro
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 45s_save_lives]
      #41633 - 16/11/05 04:01 AM

Here we go again !!!

Well said Tinker


45s saves lives - suggest you search through this
forum (probably double rifle forum) for
the Spartan thread and have a read. I think you'll
see most people are agaisnt the idea.

As to buying from India, I know one who did it and
he bought from photo, it was a piece of junk it cost
him heaps trying to fix it which just made it worse.
Them he did an unscrupulous thing and off loaded
the piece of junk onto somene else (unsuspecting)
and now he is stuck with it.

You get what you pay for.

500 Nitro



Edited by 500Nitro (16/11/05 05:21 AM)


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41635 - 16/11/05 04:40 AM

hmmmm....if you get what you pay for and it cost him heaps, then shouldn't he have gotten a really nice gun?

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500Nitro
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 500grains]
      #41641 - 16/11/05 05:19 AM


500grains

Good point - I have edited the post
to reflect what meant it to say.

500 Nitro


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tinker
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41643 - 16/11/05 05:24 AM

One way to look at it is via grading of the mess you get once you've paid the purchace price plus shipping and handling.

For instance.

Pay standard rate for a screwed up gun
PAIN

Pay over standard market and get a screwed up gun
PAIN IN THE ASS

Pay way over market for a gun that's for all intents and purposes gone from this world
ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS


See?
Big bucks can get you a royal grade gun, even in the respect of a screwed up one!





--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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500Nitro
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: tinker]
      #41649 - 16/11/05 06:21 AM


Tinker,

Very good indeed.

Generally hat I have found is that "cheap" guns
generally have problems that need fixing
- and if you take into account the cost of getting the work done AND
- the stuffing around getting it to and from the gun smith AND
- discussing / explaining what you want done,
you might as well buy a gun that is ready to go.

Since all my guns go to a gunsmith on purchase, not because
they have problems but to check out to make sure they don't,
I have worked out it is generally 5 - 10% of the purchase price.

500 Nitro


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foxfire
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41650 - 16/11/05 06:41 AM

Just a side note:
Murphy's Law pertains to guns too.
It goes something like this:
The more you pay for a hunt,
The more distance you travel to get there,
The more that is likely to go wrong with your gun when you get there and need it most.
A cheap gun only compounds this, it's like starting with
"I told you so"

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

Edited by foxfire (16/11/05 06:42 AM)


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45s_save_lives
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: foxfire]
      #41674 - 16/11/05 10:44 AM

Thanks for the advice on this one guys. Davem3, I would love to find an original BPE cartridge double, do you know where I could find one?

--------------------
Better to have and not need than to need and not have.


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Charles_Helm
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 45s_save_lives]
      #41678 - 16/11/05 11:46 AM


In reply to:

I would love to find an original BPE cartridge double, do you know where I could find one?




There are a few listed on GunsAmerica. I imagine some of the larger dealers may have some as well. I did not see any screaming bargains, but I am a true novice in these matters.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story


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k80
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #41686 - 16/11/05 01:03 PM

I found a Valmet 4?? in 308. My first
thought was to rechamber to 300 H&H.


--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas


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mickey
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: k80]
      #41689 - 16/11/05 01:18 PM

Why not a 300 RUM?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: k80]
      #41691 - 16/11/05 01:23 PM

In reply to:

Poster: k80
Subject: Re: rechambering cheap doubles

I found a Valmet 4?? in 308. My first
thought was to rechamber to 300 H&H.





I am getting a .30-06 in that configuration. One plan is to re-chamber it for a .30 Flanged Super (.300 H&H Magnum Rimmed). As long as it is a reasonable re-chambering. Why? I like the sound of the flanged round better.

I forgot to finish the deal so I'd better make sure I can still get it!

Different story I believe from rechambering say a (invisble) Spartan. BTW when are they coming onto the market . I would let a whole bunch of guys do this first to see if anyone looses their eyes, or fingers. If doing this sort of thing, wouldn't one want to fire off some hefty home proof loads too before firing it at the shoulder?

Some fellows have done it with the Pedersoli. I think one or two persons so far from reports.

The Spartan by the way has adjustable barrels (from the advertising as their seems to only be one in existence!).

I find the "Spartan" re-barrelling craze a bit strange. First there are shooters who can not afford a regular double. Understandable enough with some exceptions. Then the Spartan comes along with a number of factory chamberings. Straight away they want to re-chamber it to something bigger. Now if the market was there for a bigger chambering and it was considered safe to do by the factory, wouldn't they have supplied the heavier chambering in the first place ???

The second point to the .45/70 chambered cheapies will be even as they are, lots of guys are going to want to use them on African safaris for say buffalo, just because they are a double rifle. Maybe not so good.

The exceptions I mentioned above ie with regard to expensive doubles. There ARE a number of double rifles on the market that are quite affordable. Usually they are in medium calibres up to the 9.3x74R. I would prefer a 9.3 to a .45/70 personally.

But if a cheapie .45/70 Spartan does eventually become available and shoots well enough in that configuration I think they may well start off a whole new generation of double rifle shooters.

I think Tinker gave some excellent advice in his post(s).



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (16/11/05 03:07 PM)


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500Nitro
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #41702 - 16/11/05 02:31 PM


NitroX

30 Flanged Super (.300 H&H Magnum Rimmed)
is a hell of a cartridge to chamber for due to pressure.

H&H Rifles are notorious for this, hence why Holland
always used the Reinforced action for them - or generally.

500 Nitro


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500Nitro
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #41703 - 16/11/05 02:32 PM


NitroX

30 Flanged Super (.300 H&H Magnum Rimmed)
is a hell of a cartridge to chamber for due to pressure.

H&H Rifles are notorious for this, hence why Holland
always used the Reinforced action for them - or generally.

I just sold one so may have some bits and pieces left
if you do rechamber one - PM or email me and I'll
see what's around.

500 Nitro


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k80
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41706 - 16/11/05 02:47 PM

The RUM is much younger than me.
Email from Remington last week.
"Thank you for your interest in Remington firearms. The SPR22 has not been distributed at this time. We hope to begin distributing them later this Winter or early Spring 2006 to Remington Wholesalers.

We appreciate your patience."
This was in response to my inquiry about the Spartan.


--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas

Edited by k80 (18/11/05 11:19 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41708 - 16/11/05 03:11 PM

500Nitro

I have to get the .30-06 barrels into the country first.

No hurry on the re-chamber if at all. If it is not a good idea I have dies, cases etc all ready from my other .30-06.

The idea came up as a barrelled set in .30 Flanged Super was available but I was too slow in buying it.

So in your opinion would it be an acceptable idea, or a bad idea to considered rechambering one to .30 Super F?



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #41712 - 16/11/05 03:31 PM


IMHO, bad idea

H&H used reinforced actions and I don't think
you will see a great velocity benefit over 3006/

Only benefit is Rim.

Just my HO.

500 Nitro


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: 500Nitro]
      #41801 - 17/11/05 12:29 PM

500Nitro

Thanks for the advice. I will keep it in mind. Maybe leave it as it is when I get them.


***


Proof Loads in re-chambered Spartans **********

I mentioned shooting some proof loads in a rechambered Spartan.

The following is a good thread on exactly that topic:

Proof Loads


.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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vigillinus
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Re: rechambering cheap doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #42083 - 21/11/05 11:23 PM


If I am not mistaken ballistics of the .300 Flanged Magnum are just about the same as contemporary American .30'06 loads amd behind the enhanced '06 Light Magnum and High Energy stuff. When it was introduced it was a big improvement on the .303 British though.


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