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UsingEnoughGun
.224 member


Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Mississippi, USA
Thoughts on the 300 H&H?
      #40536 - 04/11/05 03:34 AM

As a newcomer to this forum, let me first say that I’m very happy to be in your company. After finding NitroExpress.com a few days ago, I’ve been reading posts as a “guest” before joining and have gleaned more good information about double rifles from this site than any other source I’ve found. You guys obviously know your stuff.

I’m even happier to say that after a lifelong, but until recently unfulfilled love affair with double rifles, I’m finally an owner. Hopefully, I’ll have as many years left to carry it as I spent wanting it!

My rifle is a scalloped boxlock 300 H&H by Ludwig Borovnik, and dates to 1951. It has double set triggers, ejectors, a single leaf rear, good wood, tasteful scroll engraving with a very good bear just forward of the trigger guard, and is topped with a vintage steel-tubed Weaver K4. The bores are perfect and it’s about 95% overall.

I couldn’t be happier with the caliber. I’ve researched the round and have learned that it dates to the 1920s, is a .375 H&H case necked down to .308, and was developed by Holland and Holland as a hot round for thin-skinned dangerous game. In a 10.5 pound well-balanced rifle, the recoil isn’t bad at all. But I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.

What amazes me is how accurate this rifle is. From a rest, it shoots right/left groups of one-half inch at 100 yards. The catch is, it likes the old stuff — 220 grain Winchester Silvertips or Remington mushrooms from the same era the gun was made. It’s obviously regulated for that load. 150s and 180s of the same manufacture and period produce three-inch groups.

Nothing else I’ve found (I’m not a handloader, but willing) is nearly as accurate as the old 220s. I’ve been haunting “GunBroker” and “Auction Arms” and can find it there occasionally, but (like everything else that old) it’s getting harder to come by. I’ve laid in a pretty good supply but it won’t last forever.

My question, then, regards custom ammo. Who can/would custom load ammunition to match the ballistics of a 1950s 220-grain Winchester round in 300 H&H?

The apparent obsolescense of the 300 H&H makes me like it even better. Nobody seems to know (or care) much about it. I’ve even done a phrase search for “300 H&H” on this site, and got NO results. Is there another owner of a double in this caliber out there? I’ll appreciate any and all discussion on the 300 H&H — your experiences, ballistics, history, viability in a safari arsenal, use on North American big game, etc. Also, any information on the maker Borovnik (Ferlach Guild, Austria) would be helpful.

I’ll probably never get to Africa, but my rifle has already proven itself on whitetails here in Mississippi. Hogs are next. And hopefully, I’ll go west one season soon and put a bull elk in its sights.

Thanks for your time, your responses, and this place for double rifle enthusiasts.



--------------------
Tom
Oxford, Mississippi USA

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." — Benjamin Franklin, 1759


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: UsingEnoughGun]
      #40544 - 04/11/05 04:10 AM


UsingEnoughGun

Welcome and good pick up.
SOme of those European guns are very nice indeed
and it seems you have a good one.
Well done for taking the first step.

Re 220gn 308's, Woodleigh Bullets make a
220gn Round Nose bullet so you'll never run
out of 220's if others are hard to come by.

500 Nitro


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #40549 - 04/11/05 04:43 AM

UEG

First, Welcome to the Wonderful
World of Doubles. (sorry Walt)

Also welcome to NEX.

Is your rifle a rimmed or belted 300?

You should be able to change out the scope if you want and if you learn to hand load you may be able to tighten up the 180 grain loads. 3" is not to shabby though.

There are a couple of places where you can have handloads worked up that may help but they are not cheap. Doing it yourself is better and cheaper.

I would love to see a picture if you can post some.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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UsingEnoughGun
.224 member


Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Mississippi, USA
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: mickey]
      #40553 - 04/11/05 05:13 AM

Have photos, just haven't figured out how to post 'em. I looked under "Image" but it seems I have to have a URL (homepage?) to do it. I don't. Any help would be appreciated.

--------------------
Tom
Oxford, Mississippi USA

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." — Benjamin Franklin, 1759


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: UsingEnoughGun]
      #40566 - 04/11/05 10:44 AM

UEG

Try looking here.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=IT&Number=718&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

You will need a photo hosting site. I like Photo Bucket.

If at the end you are still stuck, email the pictures to Nitroexpress@nitroexpress.com and John will do it.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: mickey]
      #40569 - 04/11/05 11:18 AM

The 300 H&H is my favorite 30 cal.
I have never had one that did
not shoot great. I wonder if
Merkel or others made doubles
in the 300? Have you tried the
200 grain partition

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39902
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: UsingEnoughGun]
      #40626 - 05/11/05 01:51 AM

Your double rifle sounds very nice. And perfect for hunting in North America.

Woodleigh 220 gr projectiles sound like the cure to your bullet shortage.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: UsingEnoughGun]
      #40667 - 05/11/05 05:06 AM

Can't think of a more desirable or versatile double. Is it flanged or belted ( not that it makes any differance really except for brass) ? I think your best bet is reloading yourself. It's inexpensive to get into and inexpensive to do. $250 will get you a press,electronic scale and dies and that's all you need to start. Plus brass ( but you already have that ) bullets ( I reccommend 220gr Nosler Partitions or Woodleighs) powder and primers. I use IMR 4350 but others work well also. Easy to do and pleasant way to spend an evening. If I remember correctly there's a good sporting goods store in town if they can't supply your needs there's always Memphis. I get to Oxford a couple of times a year to visit my brother (he's a retired Ole Miss prof) but don't linger too long as I'm a State grad. There are some BIG whitetails in Mississippi and the hunting used to really be good with LARGE bag limits. You should get good use out of that double. Happy hunting.

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UsingEnoughGun
.224 member


Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Mississippi, USA
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: zimhunter]
      #40671 - 05/11/05 05:49 AM

Thanks zimhunter, mick & all. It's belted, fortunately, so brass is no problem. I'm still trying to post pictures and hope to have them up soon. I tried to send them to you John, but your mailbox is full.

I (sort of) understand the physics of bullet weight vs. powder charge in tightening groups. But can I reasonably expect to do any better than 1/2" at 100 yards? That's about maximum shooting range where I hunt whitetails.

And if — I mean WHEN, yikes! — I go west for elk, and I'm handloading, can I (by trial at the range) realistically make this a 200- or 300-yard gun with similar accuracy? I know the caliber won all sorts of extreme range matches in London in its heyday. I'd just been thinking I'd have to get within 100 yards of my bull because that seems to be this rifle's regulated range. But that's with this old, 220-grain load, I guess?

And one more question... Inside 40 yards, I get good right/left patterns, but they're somewhere around two inches low. That doesn't concern me much; I've shot the gun enough to know where to hold on a close deer. But it interests me. What's going on there?

Zimhunter, what's a Mississippi State Bulldog doing in Arizona?!? How do you stand that (I know, I know... it's dry) heat?


--------------------
Tom
Oxford, Mississippi USA

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." — Benjamin Franklin, 1759


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UsingEnoughGun
.224 member


Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 4
Loc: Mississippi, USA
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: UsingEnoughGun]
      #40682 - 05/11/05 07:13 AM

Okay, here goes...









--------------------
Tom
Oxford, Mississippi USA

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." — Benjamin Franklin, 1759


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ChopperGuy
.224 member


Reged: 30/12/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Northern Minnesota
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: UsingEnoughGun]
      #40683 - 05/11/05 07:33 AM

The 220 Woodleigh really is a great bullet. I even managed to find some old data for the 220 grain .30-06 loads using Hodgen powdder that shoot great in my Krieghoff even though it was regulated for 180 grain bullets. They have proven themselves on white tail here and will go to Africa with me next time.

I've been drooling over a new James MacNaughton double rifle in 300 H&H at Griffin and Howe. The price puts it way outside my means, but then there is always winning the lottery. Here's a link:

http://www.griffinhowe.com/riflemoreinfo.cfm

Some guns just deserve a good handload and never shoot a cartridge that's younger than you are.

Good Luck.

Mike

--------------------
"If you are in trouble, an airplane can fly over and throw you flowers, while a helicopter can land and save your life" Igor Sikorsky 1947


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: ChopperGuy]
      #40688 - 05/11/05 08:13 AM


300 H&H Flanged Brass is available
so don't pass up a gun just becasue it's not belted.

By the way - Lovely gun, you'll have great fun with it.

Suggest you keep pressures low on the 300H&H
- or at least don't push the envelope.

Also, you might fnd you can actually get 150, 165's
and 180gns to shoot in it as well (regulate) as a lot of
doubles will shoot lighter bullets.


500 Nitro


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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Thoughts on the 300 H&H? [Re: UsingEnoughGun]
      #40773 - 06/11/05 02:55 AM

I had an 8x60rs Otto Geyger double which is pretty much the same as 300 H&H ballistics. What you have to realize and do is for longer distances than 100 yds consider you have a single shot rifle or really 2 single shot rifles. You can sight one barrel in to shoot anywhere you want since you have good scope sighting. Sight in for 100yds and then check each barrel at 200 yds and see where they shoot assuming they were single shot rifles. My Geyger shot the right barrel beautifully. Most small caliber doubles even have one trigger 'set' for this exact reason. Just takes a little range time which is pleasant. Incidentally Oxford in the summer is down right unpleasant, and I haven't HEARD a mosquito in years. I still miss MISS in spring and fall every year. I've lived in Az 27 years so it's pretty much home. Wish the buffet was still up at Abbeville. Thats the only buffet I've ever see that had quail and frog legs regularly. You won't have any trouble for elk with the double.

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