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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Looking to buy first DR
      #39397 - 21/10/05 06:30 AM

I am looking to buy my first DR. I have been looking at a Krieghoff Classic Big Five in 500NE with an extra set of 30-06 barrels. It looks like a great gun but have been toying with the idea of a 577NE. Any suggestions on where I should look or who makes a good 577 DR. I don't want anything ornate, just a good DR for some hard shooting at a reasonable price. This DR will definitely go to Africa more then a few times in the next decade. Does anyone have experience with Searcy? I live in Northern California and any shops that stock DR's around here would be great to know about.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39400 - 21/10/05 07:30 AM

bulldog563

Firstly, spend a week searching this forum for posts over the 2 years
forums as most questions re Searcy have been covered 10 times.

You will also find comments about Krieghoff and other
from current owners.

Re 577 or 500 - I'd go 500 Nitro but that is a personal choice.


Re I live in Northern California and any shops that stock DR's
around here would be great to know about.

Look around www.gunshop.com and other web sites(see links
on the link forums on this forum) to view web sites.

Finally, all I can recommend is sepnd the money an go to gun
shows and handle as many old (ie English) and new (ie Searcy, Krieghoff,
Merkel, Chapuis etc) double rifles as you can.

And after working out what's good and what's not, buy the gun
that feels and handles for you - ie don't buy X make of gun because
it's $1000 cheaper - work out which you like, which fits you, which
"comes up" for you and then buy this one.

Hope this helps


500 Nitro

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39402 - 21/10/05 09:36 AM

Bulldog

I can't believe that 3005 barrels on a 500NE frame could be a good handling combination. It would seem to be much to barrel heavy and cumbersome .

A 577 will cost you a premium compared to a 500 or a 470. It is a good caliber but it will be heavier and will recoil substantially more. Some will tell you it is not needed because the PH will be there to bail you out. In my mind that is a big 'Maybe'.

Anyway, do as 500grains suggests and look around. Don't buy something because it is handy or cheap. You will probably not be happy and in the end it will not be cheap.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39404 - 21/10/05 10:04 AM

Bulldog-

Welcome to the forum.

I don't know of any shop in northern California that stocks double rifles... I can think of a couple shops that may from time to time have a couple, but not so much shops that stock double rifles per se.

There's a shop up in Perrin, but the guy there typically has whetever he owns in double rifle stock out at gun shows out in Nevada at any given time, there's a guy out in San Mateo county who evidently may from time to time have a double rifle or two on hand, also out in Walnut Creek there's a shop that (again from time to time...) might once in a while have a double rifle.

Something to consider is that these things are expensive and the gun buying crowd out here is pretty thin on appreciation of the double rifle.
What's your budget range? What's the asking price on that two barrel set you speak of?
If you're considering getting into a new rifle, Searcy down in San Diego county or the Rigby Rifle Company down in Paso Robles are the only games in town, and it's a bit of a drive (although worth it) to go in for an appointment with one of those rifle makers.

Do you already have any experience shooting such big bore guns as .577 nitro? If you end up considering Searcy, there's a chance he'd let you have a go with one of his .577 rifles there at his shop before you were to commit to such a machine.


I'm near you here in Oakland, by the way.

--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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bradhe
.224 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 14
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: tinker]
      #39406 - 21/10/05 10:13 AM

I've been down this road recently I live in Hillsborough and have figured out that there are not a lot of places to look at double rifles in the area. If the guy mentioned in San Mateo is Mike Krause at Krausewerke, he might have one every couple of years (I'm in there most weeks, it is a great shop otherwise) The only place even vaguely close is Sportsmans Access which is up past Sacramento. He usually has a few, and I know has a Wilkins .700, an Army & Navy 577 (mine which I am selling) and a couple of others, or at least he did a couple of weeks ago. By far the best idea is to go to the SCI show in Reno in January. You can see dozens, including all of the curent manufacturers. Last year I eneded up buying a Searcy 3 barrel set there.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: tinker]
      #39407 - 21/10/05 10:19 AM


Tinker,

Why do you say "Rigby Rifle Company down in Paso Robles
are the only games in town "

What's so good about the "Mexican" Rigby's out of Paso Robles.

I thought they were just Merkel actions with the Rigby name
on them - which frm what most US people tell me means nothing
now in these modern guns anyway.

at the shows and from the photos I've seen in DGJ and other places,
The fit and finish didn't look that good at all, especially the wood
to metal fit on the high end guns - gaps, uneven, bad chequering.

Would like to hear your opinion.

500 Nitro

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
When in search of a DR builder in California... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #39409 - 21/10/05 10:31 AM

.500-


Searcy and Rigby are the only DR builders in California.

Not so much an opinion, just the facts there.
If someone knows of another Double rifle builder in Califronia besides those two shops, let me know. I'd like to get out for a visit.

There might be guys rehabbing shotguns into rifles, but as far as new-built guns those are the only games in town -- California town that is.

This isn't to say that either Searcy or Rigby are the only guns to get, or that I think that by any means that they are the best choice for anyone.




Hope that clears that up for you.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bradhe]
      #39410 - 21/10/05 10:37 AM

Brad-

Sportsman's Access is the shop I spoke of above here, Penryn is the name of that town now that I think of it.
Usually whatever he has (in double rifles) is in the back of his little truck or on a table at the gun show. It is nice to get in there from time to time though. The man who owns that shop is a -very- straight talking individual and I very much appreciate his style. I've bought from him in the past.

The other shop you mentioned is the one I was thinkning of in San Mateo County.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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MauserRifle
.300 member


Reged: 15/03/05
Posts: 153
Loc: U.S.A.
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39413 - 21/10/05 11:03 AM

bulldog563

Welcome to the forum.

When it comes to the topic of DR's, some of the most knowledgeable people from all around the world belong to this forum as I can attest too. As the others have mentioned, there are many topics and posts concerning a first DR. One recent posting is the one I brought up on 14/09/05, "Which DR Cartridge for YOU!" It is three pages back and filled with valuable information. Many of the most knowledgeable members provided information on that topic. It is well worth reading. In fact I have printed it out for my own reference.

Again welcome, and I hope this information will be helpful to you.



--------------------
Mauser Rifle

Everyday is a great day, some days are just better than others!

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: tinker]
      #39415 - 21/10/05 01:26 PM

Asking price on the 2 barrel set is 17 or 18. It includes two pivot mounts and two swarovski scopes along with a few other accesories; americase, breako recoil reducer and a couple others. Right now I have a Winchester model 70 Safari Express in 458 Win Mag but I have never shot any of the NE cartridges.I am planning on going to the SCI show to check out the DR's they have there, any other shows that you would reccommend attending. Thanks for the input.



--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39417 - 21/10/05 02:08 PM

In reply to:

I am planning on going to the SCI show to check out the DR's they have there, any other shows that you would reccommend attending.



That was going to be my comment. SCI is not many months away and should allow you to look at and handle many different double rifles and calibres in the one place.

There is a Californian Side by Side Society or some name like that, but I do not know much about them except they thought I should pay THEM advertising dollars to do a simple link exchange. They have a web site. They MAY have events which you could attend and look at some of the owners personal double rifles.


I too would vote personally for a .500 NE if the choice was between .577 and .500). Check out 500grains elephant hunt report on the Hunt Reports forum where he used his Searcy .500 NE on several elephant and buffalo.

Otherwise I would also consider out of the following: .450/.400; .500/.416; .450; .470.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
You're welcome... [Re: bulldog563]
      #39419 - 21/10/05 02:25 PM

Bulldog-

You might want to get ahold of that shop up in Penryn, if you let the shop owner know what you are looking for he'll keep an eye out for you and rest assured, he'll be straight-to-a-fault at all times. No sugar coating provided. Again, that's why I like that guy and that's why he's gotten my money in the past, nice guns too mind you.
There's definitely value in being able to stop in there and actually handle and fiddle with what you're considering as a purchace.


Are you sure you're going to want telescopic sights on your double rifle?
The double rifle's all about fit quick shooting. Are your eyes in decent shape?
For that money you might consider calling Butch Searcy and setting an appointment up to see him down there in San Diego county. I don't have one of his guns, but the guys here who do have everything good to say about that man and his rifles.


--Tinker


--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: You're welcome... [Re: tinker]
      #39421 - 21/10/05 02:39 PM

I dont really want a scope for the 500 barrels but it is a quick detach pivot mount and it comes in the package so I will take it. I mainly want the scope for the 30-06 barrels. Do you know the shops phone number, name or any way I can reach them?

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39422 - 21/10/05 02:46 PM

Bulldog,

What are you planning to hunt with your DR? Until I visited the BGRC shoot at Lodi and got to shoot some on CCSO and Ernie Stalman's recommendation, I simply did not know how much fun they would be even though I have hunted with a double shotgun for many years.

If you want to hunt Africa the Krieghoffs should be fantastic. If you want to take your rifle out for Californian hogs then I would suggest a good black powder DR. They are more fun than you could imagine. I hope to buy one someday soon for deer hunts in the Midwest as I shall most probably never hunt in Africa.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #39430 - 21/10/05 03:08 PM

This DR will be primarily for Africa, ie; Big five with mainly ele's and buff. Hopefully a rhino one day. I may use it for some bear or hogs in California in the off season for Africa.

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bulldog563
.400 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 1153
Loc: California
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39434 - 21/10/05 03:15 PM

Since looking at more posts on the forum I am seriously considering having a searcy made since I can visit the shop and have it fitted for me as well as having an opportunity to try out different DR's in different calibers. The Rigby's are out of my price range and from what I have heard are not worth it.

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tinker
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Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39437 - 21/10/05 03:33 PM

I'm with Mehul, in that the fun's there for me in handling the more historically seasoned black powder Double Rifles.

I have three and they're all pre nitro powder guns. I don't think I'll ever get out to hunt elephant or rhino, that's not really the thing for me. Slapping the snot out of coastal pigs with sixteen bore lead bullets -- that's another kind of conversation!

The contact info for you...

SPORTSMANS ACCESS 3125 Penryn Rd. Penryn California 95663 USA phone: (916) 652-2220

Tyler is likely the man you want to talk to. I can't recall the name of his associate there who mans the fort while he and the finer guns are out to show, but he's a great guy too, just not so well versed in the double rifle end of the business as Tyler is.

Take a little trip up there this weekend.
It's a great shop, in kind of a yesteryear sense. You won't find a squishy lounge or smoking room there, very little creature comforts at all actually. What you'll find there is straight talk and nice guns.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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clark7781
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Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39463 - 21/10/05 11:40 PM

bulldog:

Welcome to the Party.

A couple of suggestions. This site is great for DR questions. Many of the same people on here also post on www.accuratereloading.com. Do a search on both sites for anything and everything you can think of about DRs.

Second, I see you said you are going to SCI in Reno. Great idea! Most, if not all, of the big DR builders will be there. It's the best single place to go and shoulder the various makes, models and calibers of DR. Find the one that fits you best. Also, Dallas Safari Club, a week after SCI, is another good place to go. It's not as large as SCI, but many of the same faces. I'm going to DSC and getting together with a bunch of guys who post on AR.

If you are in California, I would highly recommend giving Butch Searcy a call and taking a road trip to visit his shop. Butch is one stand up guy and will give you the grand tour of the place. Searcy makes one hell of a DR.
(He's planning on moving his base of operation to SD, but not sure what his time frame is.)

.500 v. .577? The .500 is probably a better caliber to start with - I have a .500 and love it, and my Pop is getting a .577 from Butch.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE

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jaz
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US
Re: Looking to buy first DR [Re: bulldog563]
      #39546 - 22/10/05 09:42 PM

I take a different approach to these guns. In my humble opinon, the older English doubles are the way too go. My reasons are:

-they are built to quality standards which would cost tens of thousands of dollars today
-from an investment viewpoint, they can not be beat. Several years ago I sold off my stock portfolio to invest in these. The return is very good, though they are not very liquid. But the enjoyment is far better than owning paper. A gun from a new maker will depreciate as new ones are being built.
-As Tinker mentioned, BPE rifles represent a fantastic value. I have had many from .360 to .577 and they perform extremely well. A normal .450 BPE with a jacketed bullet from Hornady (360 grains) will shoot anything short of buffalo or elephant. Compare the 45-70 to the .450 BPE and look at all the buffalo shot on the Western Plains. Read Sherman Bell's article in DGJ about hunting with a .577 BPE for buffalo.
-If you have ever shot a .577 nitro, it is not pleasant.
-Reloading smokeless for black is almost a no brainer with an abundance of reloading data available.

This is my opinion and sorry if I have offended those who opt for new rifles.

Read Ross Seyfrieds article "to own a double rifle" in DGJ Summer 2000. He is (IMO)the foremost authority on double rifles.
John

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