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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1277
Loc: Georgia, USA
My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR
      #393856 - 15/10/25 05:55 AM

I recently acquired a new (to me) double rifle in 9x58.5r Sauer. I am trying to post pictures of my rifle. Hopefully this works, (finders crossed - Process seems tedious)

From what I see, the proof marks are pre-1912 (maybe someone can help me with that)

https://i.postimg.cc/HxGKk8SP/IMG-0077.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/nz85h9d3/IMG-0078.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/XJMhYB22/IMG-0079.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/3RM6x0L9/IMG-0080.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Y91PG2Zc/IMG-0081.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/MTyLMZN8/IMG-0082.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/yxsbF4Cz/IMG-0083.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/gjmTvFbW/IMG-0084.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/T1f4rMv5/IMG-0086.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/SRkvWFbz/IMG-0087.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Bb4Vx9fx/IMG-0088.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Gtd5kwnJ/IMG-0089.jpg

--------------------
RB

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4555
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: 85lc]
      #393857 - 15/10/25 06:48 AM

Very nice piece of kit indeed 85lc!
Capt Curl with love that belly as well!
Beautiful engraving

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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 1239
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: 85lc]
      #393860 - 15/10/25 08:46 AM











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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1277
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: Claydog]
      #393863 - 15/10/25 12:03 PM

Claydog, Thanks for posting the pictures.

I am not sure if rifle is German or Austrian. The proof marks appear (to me) to be Austrian between 1891 and 1912 for a black powder rifle.

I recently shot this rifle using 180 gr HC GC bullet swaged to 0.356" pushed by 22 gr of IMR 4198. The velocity was 1600 fps.

I would like to get up to 1800 fps and use for deer hunting in the SE, USA.

Any thoughts on loads?

--------------------
RB

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27934
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: 85lc]
      #393864 - 15/10/25 03:42 PM

If your current load is accurate in this rifle (regulated), the speed is just fine for deer. You are currently duplicating the high speed load from a normal length.38/55(or thereabouts).
Otherwise, some "work" is in order. Nice rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 1239
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: DarylS]
      #393867 - 15/10/25 05:27 PM

That is a nice useable double. Would be a great deer rifle. Nicely engraved is a definite bonus. Greener action?

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bwanabobftw
.375 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 709
Loc: Texas
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: Claydog]
      #393871 - 16/10/25 12:02 AM

Now that’s a classy deer rifle !!!!!!!!!!!!
Congratulations

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1277
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #393872 - 16/10/25 01:49 AM

I agree that accuracy trumps velocity and that 1600fps with a 180 gr slug is adequate for southern white tail deer. As Daryl points out, the ballistics of that load equals the 38/55 (HP) ballistics.

I have only shot this load at a short range (a nearby indoor range).

There is a slight spread between the right and left barrel, with the right being about 1" - 1.5" right of the left barrel. That indicates to me that more velocity or lighter bullet may be needed. I think the intended bullet weight is around 200 grs so higher velocity may be the ticket. Of course, shooting at an outdoor range at 50 and 100 yds is needed.

In looking for some guidance, I checked Wright's "Shooting the British Double Rifle" (4th ed). Now Wright didn't include the 9x58.5r Sauer but the 360 EX (BPE) is very close. In fact, I use my 360EX dies to reload the cases. The Sause case is 58.5mm and the 360 EX case is 57mm long (very close). Both can be made from 9.3x72R cases.

Wright shows a load for the 360EX of 25 gr of R7 and a 190 gr jacketed bullet for 1700 fps. I will try the 25 gr of R7 and my 180 gr HC GC bullet at the outdoor range and see how that does at 50 & 100 yds. I will also try my existing load using IMR 4198.

--------------------
RB

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5353
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: 85lc]
      #393916 - 19/10/25 11:05 PM

Nice rifle!

The "U crown" and "G crown" and 118/35 are German proof marks. The other marks probably were applied later. The 118/35 is the original plug gauge measurement of the bore stated in bore gauge - 118.35 gauge.

I don't have my proof reference books in front of me now, so I am not able to be more specific.

I see the barrels are chopper lumps. That is somewhat uncommon for a German rifle, but not rare.

Shoot the rifle at longer range to find out what it is really doing.

Curly

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1810
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: CptCurl]
      #393920 - 20/10/25 01:27 AM

Quote:

The "U crown" and "G crown" and 118/35 are German proof marks. The 118/35 is the original plug gauge measurement of the bore stated in bore gauge - 118.35 gauge.
I don't have my proof reference books in front of me now, so I am not able to be more specific.


Pre-1905 Suhl proofs as there is no distinction between bp and Nitro. The queer gauge numbers were taken over from the British proof tables. 118.35 stood for a bore/ land diameter from .340” to .350”.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27934
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: kuduae]
      #393921 - 20/10/25 02:03 AM

Those ballistics were closer to the original smokeless load for the .32/40, 1,600fps with a 170gr., I believe.
The HV .38/55 load, seems to me, was a 255gr. FN at 1,800fps., but from a 28" bl.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
.400 member


Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1277
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: DarylS]
      #393931 - 20/10/25 06:27 AM

With 180 gr GC bullet and 25 gr of IMR 4198, I am getting ~1850 fps. The 50 yd group was about 2 1/2". I would like to try more with the powder. Unfortunately, I am about out of 4198.

I loaded some case with R7 which is supposed to be a little faster burning than 4198 but the 25 gr loads were slower and the groups were larger.

I will try several loads with 3031.

--------------------
RB

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27934
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: 85lc]
      #393940 - 20/10/25 09:54 AM

IMR & H 4198 and R7, I think, change places on the scale, depending on the ctg. or perhaps it might also change with pressure level generated.
The same "trading places" also happens with the 4895's. With some other powder makers using the same or similar numbers, it can be confusing. This becomes especially confusing when the prefix of the powder maker is not given in the data.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27934
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new 9x58.5r Sauer DR [Re: DarylS]
      #393941 - 20/10/25 09:58 AM

What diameter bullets are you using?
I do believe there are a couple different mfgr's making 200gr. RN moulds in .358".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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