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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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KiernanNZ
.224 member


Reged: 11/01/18
Posts: 31
Loc: Dunedin, New Zealand
A couple of single shot Projects.
      #393799 - 12/10/25 09:51 PM

Hello all.
I've put this here because it's 'building double rifles AND gunsmithing' not just DR'S
I've got a couple of rebarrelling projects that I've started, in part to practice techniques for when I build a double rifle on a shotgun action. Maybe more than one...

I'm a Kiwi, and while our laws were, sadly, changed after the christchurch shooting, we are still allowed to do our own gunsmithing- we can't do it without a dealers endorsement "as a service or as a product intended for sale" were the words of the arms officer, but diy on your own stuff is still OK.

I have a Boxford CUD lathe (think southbend 9" they're related, many parts interchange) and a round column mill. Machining is a hobby, my day job is as a light fabrication tradesman.

So. My first projects are barrels for a H&R Handi Rifle, a Rossi 20ga and a Rossi 22/410 combo.
The H&R is a youth frame in 243... that someone's cut down to 17". 243 really needs a long tube. I'm going to rebarrel it back up to 22" with an ex target rifle 6mmBR barrel. It's in good nick inside.
2nd barrel for the H&R will be a .30-30 made from a SAKO 300WM takeoff. It's burnt out at the throat but I'll be reaming that out. I may sleeve the chamber to get more usable length out of it
3rd will be a 22lr and 4th will be a 20ga, to make it a one gun armoury
The Rossi 20ga is a parts gun... someone's tried 'gunsmithing' on the barrel lug and stuffed it.
They're a common frame gun, same receiver on rifles and shotguns. So...
I plan to build a 25-06 barrel for it- I have a SAKO takeoff in pretty good condition
Second barrel will be a 30-30 built on a mint bsa 308 barrel. Again I may sleeve the chamber.
3rd will be putting a new lug on the 20ga barrel, 4th will be 22lr.
And finally the Rossi 22/410.
I plan to build a barrel for it in 32-20. I have an old 303 barrel that will do for this, and it'll be interesting to build a D-flute reamer to for it.

A note on sleeving chambers. SAKO did it between the world wars to some tens of thousands of Mosins that they bought from Austria, where they'd been rechambered to 8x50r Mannlicher.
If it's safe for them to be sleeved for as high pressure a round as 7.62x54r, then I'm sure that a relatively moderate pressure round such as 30-30 can be safely sleeved for, with due attention to detail of course.


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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9663
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: A couple of single shot Projects. [Re: KiernanNZ]
      #393801 - 12/10/25 11:03 PM

"I'm sure that a relatively moderate pressure round such as 30-30 can be safely sleeved "

I am with you on this but whenever possible the sleeve have to be screwed and not only soft soldered. its a big plus in my eyes but other may think different about it. small pistol cartridges like 32-20 or the little 22 lr is another thing, of course.

good you can still do such works by yourself in NZ, here its for gunmakers only.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1691
Loc: Finland
Re: A couple of single shot Projects. [Re: lancaster]
      #393810 - 13/10/25 05:20 AM

Quote:

SAKO did it between the world wars to some tens of thousands of Mosins that they bought from Austria, where they'd been rechambered to 8x50r Mannlicher.


Actually not so many:

"Rifle barrel relining scandal:

As noted by year 1924 the total number of rifles with corroded rifle barrels in depots of Finnish Armed Forces and Suojeluskunta (Finnish Civil Guard) had reached 200,000 while Finnish Armed Forces had no equipment for repairing damaged rifle barrels or financing for replacing them. Only possible repair methods available for rifles with damaged barrels were either replacing the barrel or relining it with Salerno method (which Italy had used during World War 1 for relining of old 10.4 mm calibre Vetterli M1870/87 rifles for 6.5x52 Carcano ammunition). As the Finns had no experience of either, Finnish military decided to test both of these options. In 1925 - 1927 Weapons Depot 1 (in Helsinki) relined over 13,000 rifle barrels, while at the same time also new rifle barrels were bought and used to replace worn out barrels. The relining process with Salerno-method basically included boring the existing barrel and installing a new inner barrel inside it. In addition also cartridge chamber demanded some re-tooling when this method was used.

The relining program created a scandal, as experts that inspected the results considered rifle barrels fixed this way to be poor quality and even potentially dangerous. This lead first into stopping production of relined rifle barrels in year 1928 and in year 1930 assembling rifles with relined rifle barrels manufactured before that was halted as well. Trials followed and reimbursements were sentenced because of this scandal. Before the production of relined barrels was stopped it had relined some 13,450 rifle barrels for infantry rifle M/91, another 1,490 rifle barrels for cavalry rifle M/91 and 595 barrels for Maxim machineguns. The Committee created to investigate the matter in year 1927 came up with conclusion of only 15 % of the relined rifle barrels were good, 20 - 35 % totally unfit for use and the rest (estimated 50 - 75 %) in need of further repairs. In second more detailed inspection made in year 1930 the Committee came to conclusion that only 14 % of the relined barrels were suitable for use, 51 % were totally unfit for use and 27 % required further repairs. After that the matter was set to rest until suitability of the rifle barrels relined with Salerno-method was again re-evaluated in year 1938 - and this time they got rated as "adequate". During the desperate days of Winter War Finnish military was suffering shortages of all sorts of equipment - including rifles. With more rifles being desperately needed, rifle production was speeded up and ordered to cut corners to come up with more rifles. After that all sorts of already existing parts - including even the relined rifle barrels with worst quality rating got used for manufacturing and repairing rifles during that war. By May of 1940 remaining relined rifle barrels had been used to repair or manufacture about 8,000 infantry rifles m/91. This changed also the legal situation, since back in 1930's several persons had been sentenced to pay financial reimbursements for their part in "relining-scandal". But now that the once rejected relined rifle barrels that they had made reimbursements for had been used in wartime rifle production, there obviously was no longer ground for such financial demands. So in year 1940 they got the reimbursements compensated, but the otherwise the earlier court sentences were not overturned or reduced. Collectors are commonly referring rifles M/91 with relined barrels as P-series, due to relined barrels being normally marked on top of cartridge chamber with marking that is typically P-26 or P-27, with P being abbreviation of "putkitettu" (relined) and the two digits indicating year."

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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KiernanNZ
.224 member


Reged: 11/01/18
Posts: 31
Loc: Dunedin, New Zealand
Re: A couple of single shot Projects. [Re: lancaster]
      #393814 - 13/10/25 06:50 AM

I was thinking of shrinking it in with dry ice on the insert and heat on the barrel at about 0.0015" interference per 1" diameter at ambient. Maybe with hydraulic press assistance- I have access to all of these.
The rule of thumb is 0.001" interference per 1" diameter. My calcs say it should slip in at 0.0015"/Ø1". I've seen 5 thou on 3 inch interference fits (.00167"/Ø1") so it should go.
What would be the advantage of threading in over shrinking?

My reasoning for shrinking is a couple of posts on another forums gunsmithing section in which a member, who seems quite well respected by that forums other members, describing his process for shrink fitting an insert.
I have assisted in some shrink fitting (bigger stuff) and it's unbelievably strong.

Edited by KiernanNZ (13/10/25 02:26 PM)


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KiernanNZ
.224 member


Reged: 11/01/18
Posts: 31
Loc: Dunedin, New Zealand
Re: A couple of single shot Projects. [Re: Igorrock]
      #393819 - 13/10/25 08:14 AM

The source that I read had some of the history of the Austro-Hungarian use of the Mosin as well.
They captured a lot and were given more by the Germans.
The first several thousand were bored (and I imagine re-rifled) and rechambered in 8x50r Mannlicher, the cases being identical length to the junction of shoulder and neck and slightly larger in diameter with the rims being similar enough to work.
Then testing showed that the Mosin was strong enough to fire the 8mm projectile without reboring , so they were just rechambered after that, and the throat lengthened to allow for the longer projectiles.
It was these ones that had the chamber inserts put in by SAKO, and they were brazed in from all that I could find then chambered for 7.62x54r.

Edited by KiernanNZ (13/10/25 02:05 PM)


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