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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns

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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
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Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Using Steel Shot in Our Guns
      #393439 - 16/09/25 08:35 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyMSur0BdDQ There seems to be a few misconceptions about steel shot use in your old English shotgun. This is one of the best clips on it I have seen. Simon Reinhold from Holts Auctions. Also gives a bit of a rundown on barrel wall thickness. Worth a watch.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27837
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Using Steel Shot in Our Guns [Re: Claydog]
      #393448 - 17/09/25 01:39 AM

That was interesting. Appears standard steel is OK in Nitro-proofed guns with 1/2 or more open chokes.
My waterfowling guns were, of course, full chokes for pass shooting ducks and geese.
My "Field" Hammer gun will never see anything but lead shot in it's Damascus tubes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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eagle27
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Re: Using Steel Shot in Our Guns [Re: DarylS]
      #393451 - 17/09/25 07:57 AM

There is quite a bit of confusing information around about use of steel shot. The video mentions that high performance steel shot loadings should only be used in guns with fleur-de-lis proofing. While this may be a good general guide it is not absolute. When researching whether I could use steel shot loadings in my 1984 Miroku O/U Sporter gun which has Invector chokes but no steel proofing marks, I came across the following information on the Miroku/Browning site;

"All hunting or sporting shotguns (over-and-under or semi-auto guns) by Browning, Winchester and Miroku fitted with the original chokes (Invector, Steel Invector Plus, Stainless steel Invector Plus, Teague, Briley, Midas, Diamond, Signature chokes) can fire "high performance" steel shot cartridges.
Tested at the Liège test bench (high performance 1370 bars) in accordance with European law on the use of steel shot."

Converting 1370 bar gives us a pressure of 19870psi which is certainly a step up in pressures for a shotgun. There is a misconception that steel shot will score the bore of shotguns not made for steel however the bore cannot be scored if the steel shot is not touching it. Wads for steel shot are thicker and longer so the shot is fully contained in the thick plastic cup, a warning made in reloading information for steel shot is to absolutely ensure the shot is fully contained in the petals of the wad, unlike heavy loads of lead where often even in factory loads, some lead shot sit above the petals and contact the bore on the passage through.

The issue with steel shot is the choking of shotguns where hard steel shot does not compress to the same extent as lead shot hence more open chokes or stronger thicker walled, stainless steel, etc., screw in chokes are needed to prevent muzzle bulging and peening of choke threads.


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3777
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Using Steel Shot in Our Guns [Re: eagle27]
      #393454 - 17/09/25 11:23 AM

Good video clip, nice to see a rational response but as eagle27 points out, it is not absolute.

I am reluctantly tossing up the Google AI summary of this topic for background before further discussion.
Yes, I know its AI generated, but I have always considered Google responses to be "AI" anyway, but now they actually have to say so!

Quote:

AI Overview
Modern shotgun proof pressures are standardized by bodies like SAAMI (USA) and CIP (Europe) to ensure safety. For a 12-gauge shotgun, the maximum service pressure (MAP) is generally 11,500 psi (793 bar) under SAAMI, while CIP standards differ slightly. Proof loads, which are significantly higher, are used to test the strength of the barrel and ensure it can withstand these pressures and more, with tests often involving pressures around 19,800 psi (1365 bar) for a 12-gauge.

Proof Pressure vs. Service Pressure
Proof Pressure: This is the high-pressure load used to test the barrel's strength and integrity to ensure it's free of flaws and capable of withstanding the forces of normal operation.
Service Pressure (Maximum Average Pressure - MAP): This is the maximum pressure that modern ammunition is allowed to develop during normal firing for safe use in a shotgun.

Examples for 12-Gauge Shotguns
SAAMI (USA): The maximum average pressure (MAP) for 2¾-inch and 3-inch 12-gauge loads is 11,500 psi. The proof load used to test the barrels is much higher, around 19,800 psi.
CIP (Europe): Standards for 12-gauge shotguns are similar, often around 740 bar (10,730 psi) for standard loads, and 1320 bar (19,144 psi) for high-performance or magnum loads.

Proofing and Shotgun Strength
Barrel Strength: Shotgun barrels are built significantly stronger than the service pressure limits, creating a large safety margin.
Safety Factor: Proof loads are about 60% higher than the maximum average pressure (MAP) for standard loads.
Modern vs. Vintage: Proof marks on a firearm indicate that it has passed these tests, and for modern guns, this typically means they are safe for use with ammunition at or below the established service pressure limits.

AI responses may include mistakes.




So...
there are some very high pressures quoted there, that would likely pipe-bomb a vintage game gun, with or without chokes.
You will see the proof marks on Clayton's new acquisition showing 3 tons per square inch. By direct calculation this is 2240 x 3 = 6720 psi.
It is likely the service pressure of a modern gun would equal or exceed the proof pressure of that early Boswell (and most of my SxS game guns as well!).

A lot of internet sites make a big deal about the "new" proof laws of 1954, and there is a general acceptance that British shotguns nitro-proved between 1896 and 1954 may only be safe with a 3 ton service load, perhaps 3 1/4 tons.

This brings us to the critical part of Simon Reinhold's interview where inspection of the gun, particularly barrel wall thickness (and general size of the locking components including breech dimensions IMHO), will usually tell you more than proof marks in an older gun.

Opening the chokes on a 100-year-old pigeon gun or fowler in good condition will probably give you safe use of normal commercial steel shot cartridges till the end of your life, whereas using them in a vintage game gun will probably give you the results you deserve!

Sad thing is, the gun wouldn't deserve it!

Something to clarify: are the "high performance" steel shotshells mentioned in the video all 3-inch, or can they be had in a 2 3/4 shell?
If so, an accident waiting to happen?
Must look that up.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 1206
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: Using Steel Shot in Our Guns [Re: Marrakai]
      #393466 - 18/09/25 07:29 AM

https://simonreinhold.co.uk/partridge-shooting/2020/12/13/steel-shot-the-knowledge
There is a bit more about it here from Simon Reinhold and goes into different shot sizes. I had a bit of a look and most of the High Performance seemed to be 3 inch. Seemed a bit confusing to me though with all the different naming. High veocity, High Performance, Ultra High Performance,


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