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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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NitroXAdministrator
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The different shotgun bore sizes
      #393311 - 07/09/25 11:14 PM

4 bore, 8 bore, 10 bore, the most common, the 12 bore, 16 bore, 20 bore, 24 bore, 28 bore, and the .410. Any others? Smooth bores only.

What were the original purposes of the different bores? Any historical special ones and purposes? Any special purposes you personally have?

The 12 bore is the main versatile choice. A bit of everything

Here I've aways seen the 16 bore as popular in continental Europe, and their descendents around the world.

And Ithe 410 as a choice for a child and newbies.

Thelargest bores used for punt waterfowl shooting.

what are your thoughts?

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DarylS
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: NitroX]
      #393313 - 08/09/25 12:55 AM

The 14 bore was quite popular in the middle 1850's and up into the ctg era.
My bro has a percussion Manton that has 15 bore tubes, from about the mid 1850's.
14 was .693" nominally and 15 was .677"

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: DarylS]
      #393314 - 08/09/25 06:03 AM

Punt guns were huge affairs, possibly 1 bore?
Commercial wildfowlers.

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Claydog
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: 93x64mm]
      #393322 - 08/09/25 08:07 AM

20 and 28 bore becoming very popular now and second hand they get a premium over the twelve. The smaller bores allowed a smaller lighter action and gun overall. They all had their uses. Good to see the sub bores making a come back. Was talking to a retailer in Melbourne who said they are selling alot of new 20s and 28s. I think punt guns could be anything from 8 to 1.

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eagle27
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: Claydog]
      #393324 - 08/09/25 01:26 PM

COTW has probably the most extensive list of shotgun and smooth bores. Some true gauges missing from your list are 11 gauge, 15 gauge, 18 gauge and 32 gauge.

11 gauge - two double barreled guns and about 200 shells were made in the 1890's.

15 gauge - only listed for one year in the Winchester 1877 catalogue with brass shells. A rarity only found in the best collections.

18 gauge - European gauge made for custom shotguns. UMC made some for an experimental Browning shotgun sometimes with a 20 gauge headstamp. European pin fire versions also existed.

32 gauge - Made well into the 1930's with other loading batches made in later years. Fiocchi making shells in recent years.

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DarylS
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: eagle27]
      #393334 - 09/09/25 01:08 AM

I had forgotten about the 28 bore and its more recent rise in popularity. Another from times past was the 24bore.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: DarylS]
      #393336 - 09/09/25 04:30 AM

I had a double rifle drilling with the shotgun barrel being a 32 ga. I bought a couple boxes of shells over time. I also had an insert so that I could shoot .410 shells. I understand that the 32 ga was somewhat popular in Italy and maybe France.

I have heard of a 36 ga but never seen a gun in that ga and wonder how different thatwas from a .410.

Another shell is the 9mm shotshell which is still being made. A friend had a gun in 9mm RF that he inherited. He also had some shells with solid ball. I have seen cane guns in 9mm RF shot. I think the 9mm RF shotshell was for shooting garden pest (squirrels, chipmunks, birds) that were eating one's crop. I think they are fairly quite and have a short range. Shot sizes range from #6 to #9 and velocity is about 600fps (I believe).

I think a cane gun in 9mm shot would be interesting to have.

On the other side of 9mm shotshells, there was a 2 bore which I would like to watch someone shoot; I wouldn't want to shoot a 2 bore. I like my shoulder where it is.

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RB

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85lc
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: 85lc]
      #393337 - 09/09/25 04:34 AM

FYI: Article about that heavy waterfowl shotgun gauge: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/07/26/rimfire-report-9mm-flobert/

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RB

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eagle27
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: 85lc]
      #393339 - 09/09/25 07:32 AM

The .410 and 36 gauge are the same shell. The true gauge of a .410 is 68 gauge (67.5ga to be exact) i.e. 67.5 lead balls of .410" diameter to the pound.
At some stage in the early days when France and some other South American countries were playing around with terminologies for various smoothbores expressed in millimetres, bores and gauges, the .410 erroneously got called a 36 gauge. This 36 gauge reference is still used today in some European and South American countries hence .410 ammo from and for these origins is labelled 36 gauge too.
The .410 is sometimes referred to as 11mm in European circles.

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85lc
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: eagle27]
      #393340 - 09/09/25 10:36 AM

Eagle27,
Thanks for the update. Good info.

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RB

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lancaster
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: 85lc]
      #393341 - 09/09/25 02:41 PM

right, 36 ga is the same like .410, another name in france is 12 mm shotgun. the call the .32 ga also 14mm shotgun cartridge.
12, 16, 20, 24, 28 , 32 nd 26 is available by more than one maker in europe.


https://fiocchi.com/en/catalog/your-passion/hunting.html?shotgun_rifled=6303

I think there is another firm in italy and in spain making them also



9 mm Flobert rimfire is made by RWS and Fioochi, the 6 mm Flobert rimfire was made the last time in the late 1980s by Fioochi

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=383472&an=0&page=1#Post383472

there was onca a 9 mm CF shotshell , size like a 357 Max. case

14 ga was made up to WW 2, 18 ga up to WW 1

thats not all, look here under shotshells https://old.municion.org/

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93x64mm
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: lancaster]
      #393351 - 10/09/25 06:44 AM

My old Harrington & Richardson is actually marked on the top of the barrel marking was 410-12 mm (the European equivalent of the .410 bore Eley 2″ shell).
This is for the period 1921-1936

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85lc
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: 93x64mm]
      #393365 - 11/09/25 12:37 AM

There are two other shotshells. One is the .64 Maynard and the other is the .44 Stevens.

Also, Collath's shotshells were sized differently from other shotshells so that a 16 ga Collath would not fit a normal 16 ga gun and vice versa.

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RB

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: 85lc]
      #393378 - 11/09/25 12:09 PM

Quote:

There are two other shotshells. One is the .64 Maynard and the other is the .44 Stevens.

Also, Collath's shotshells were sized differently from other shotshells so that a 16 ga Collath would not fit a normal 16 ga gun and vice versa.



While these cartridges might not be examples, for the cowboy or frontiersman, it does make some sense to have shotshell versions in a pistol cartridge for ones revolver or lever action rifle. Shooting a bird for the pot.

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: NitroX]
      #393379 - 11/09/25 12:34 PM

While not a shotgun, the .22 RF shotshells, called here "sparrow shot".

I used these in my Dad's Slazenger Lithgow single shot rifle a lot as a kid. Pigeons in the shed, sparrows, starlings, assorted birds. One has to be close. Rats and similar in the sheds. The occasional brwn snake in the shed .22 RF shell shot size is too small for effective use on anything sizable.

How well does a .357 or 44 shotshell work? What sort of shot size is used?

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Waidmannsheil
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: NitroX]
      #393383 - 11/09/25 08:28 PM

In the 1930's Winchester offered minuscule shot with wads and over shot cards for use in Air rifles. That would make it 0.17" which would have to be the smallest shotgun available. Would have been great fun to use as a kid.

Matt.

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DarylS
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #393385 - 12/09/25 02:00 AM

During WW11, seems to me there was a .45ACP shot load in a paper "case" shaped like a 230gr. FMJ.
At one time, there was also a .44/40 shot load, but I don't think there was a .45 Colt shot load sold.
I've not tried them, but Speer sold plastic shot capsules for .357mag, .44mag./.44SPL and .45 (long) Colt.
I did, however load shot into .444Marlin brass for a .410shotshell. They patterned better than either 2 1/2" or 3" factory .410's.
I did not try them in my triple four.

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Daryl


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Marrakai
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: DarylS]
      #393393 - 12/09/25 01:46 PM

There were a bunch of .44 shotshells back in the day, mostly used for trick-shooting with rifles and revolvers in the manner of the Buffalo Bill travelling "wild west" shows, but with application to small game hunting implied.

Here's a good link I found when researching the chambering of my "Frankenstein" Adams revolver, discussed here.

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Marrakai
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85lc
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Re: The different shotgun bore sizes [Re: Marrakai]
      #393394 - 13/09/25 01:56 AM

Tony,

Thanks for posting. I reread your article and really enjoyed it. Your article referenced another article about the 44XL. In high school in early 1960s, a friend had a very small, single shot Stevens shotgun for the 44XL that apparently belonged to his grandfather. He told me taht it shot the 44XL which I had never heard of before. Actually, the article you reerenced is the first I read about that cartridge.

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RB

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