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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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buckstix
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Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles
      #392192 - 26/06/25 11:14 AM

Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles

I am always searching for Vintage Original A-Square rifles. I finally found one of rarest calibers. Very few were made in 458 Win Mag caliber.

458 Win Mag is one of my favorite calibers. This A-SQUARE is the 8th 458 Win Mag caliber rifle in my collection.

Specs are:
458 Winchester Magnum caliber
Custom Enfield P-17 Action
24" Heavy Barrel
11 pounds 12 ounces
14-3/8" LOP
Lyman Rear Site
Brass Bead Ramp Front Site
1.5-4.5-18 Zeiss Diavari-C Scope w/ Redfield Rings & Mounts
Coil-Chek Stock w/ Palm Swell
A-Square Leather Sling & Swivels


as always your comments are most welcome

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/458-A-SQUARE-000.jpg



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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lancaster
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392196 - 26/06/25 11:40 PM

don't take it personally butn only a 458 Win mag? this is the .22 lr of the elefant cartridges.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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bwanabobftw
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #392197 - 27/06/25 12:26 AM

Congratulations, that should be a real sweet shooter in .458.

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #392198 - 27/06/25 01:00 AM

Quote:

don't take it personally but only a 458 Win mag? this is the .22 lr of the elephant cartridges.

Well, Well, over the last 71 years, the 458 Win Mag caliber has taken more dangerous game than any other caliber.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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93x64mm
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392199 - 27/06/25 02:45 AM

Lovely rig Buckstix!
Love those Enfield actions, just tough & simple to strip down in seconds.
I know where Lancaster is going with his comment, compared to your REALLY big thumpers this 458 is only a little fella!
Yep I wonder what she'll do on the range, subsonic cast loads perhaps?

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lancaster
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392200 - 27/06/25 04:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

don't take it personally but only a 458 Win mag? this is the .22 lr of the elephant cartridges.

Well, Well, over the last 71 years, the 458 Win Mag caliber has taken more dangerous game than any other caliber.



believe it or not but sometimes I had the idea to buy a 458 Win mag just to burn powder in it.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Rule303
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392201 - 27/06/25 07:31 AM

Nice, That is a plain looking rifle, just how I like them.

Do you know who made the action, Rem, Eddystone or Winchester.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #392202 - 27/06/25 07:39 AM

Given that Art Alphin designed the Coil-check stock on the Hannibal rifles to totally soak up recoil, full power .458 loads should feel like a .22 anyway!!

Congrats on tracking down this rare chambering Buckstix.
Where do you go from here?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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eagle27
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392204 - 27/06/25 08:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

don't take it personally but only a 458 Win mag? this is the .22 lr of the elephant cartridges.

Well, Well, over the last 71 years, the 458 Win Mag caliber has taken more dangerous game than any other caliber.



I don't think A-Square, or Art Alphin himself, had a very high opinion of the 458 Win Mag based on what is written in an early A-Square catalogue I have. This may explain why few A-Square rifles were produced in .458 Win Mag.
This is Art's take on the .458 Win Mag. "This is a popular cartridge as far as sales go, but failures in the field tarnish its image. The advertised velocity of 2040 fps is still inflated. Ordinary ammunition tends to be erratic, and, coupled with short barrels average velocities are normally below 2000 fps. Though the .458 may transmit some shock, it penetrates poorly. The shooter must be aware that even with perfect placement, penetration to the brain on a bull elephant is not guaranteed. With an A-Square rifle (10" twist) and A-Square ammunition (465gr. bullet at 2220 fps) only, the cartridge is acceptable for heavy and dangerous game at close ranges."

So buckstix according to Art Alphin you do now have an acceptable DG rifle.

BTW the Hannibal rifle stock is called a Coil-Chek. Without a c, even I have got it wrong in some posts.

Edited by eagle27 (27/06/25 09:00 AM)

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buckstix
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: eagle27]
      #392205 - 27/06/25 10:32 AM

Quote:

I don't think A-Square, or Art Alphin himself, had a very high opinion of the 458 Win Mag based on what is written in an early A-Square catalogue I have. This may explain why few A-Square rifles were produced in .458 Win Mag.
This is Art's take on the .458 Win Mag. "This is a popular cartridge as far as sales go, but failures in the field tarnish its image. The advertised velocity of 2040 fps is still inflated. Ordinary ammunition tends to be erratic, and, coupled with short barrels average velocities are normally below 2000 fps. Though the .458 may transmit some shock, it penetrates poorly. The shooter must be aware that even with perfect placement, penetration to the brain on a bull elephant is not guaranteed. With an A-Square rifle (10" twist) and A-Square ammunition (465gr. bullet at 2220 fps) only, the cartridge is acceptable for heavy and dangerous game at close ranges."

So buckstix according to Art Alphin you do now have an acceptable DG rifle.

BTW the Hannibal rifle stock is called a Coil-Chek. Without a c, even I have got it wrong in some posts.

Yes, I edited my OP and corrected it to read "Coil-Chek". Art's later manuals were not as critical of the 458, but did still mention the early shortcomings of the cartridge. Also, since so many other manufacturers offered 458s, there wasn't much demand for one from A-Square. This is the first one I've been able to locate in this caliber in over 10 years of searching.

As for recoil, the weight of this rifle at nearly 12 pounds, reduces recoil by nearly 25% over lighter rifles by Remington and Winchester, etc. in 458 cal. When you add the recoil reduction of the Coil-Chek stock design, this rifle felt recoil is about half of other rifles in 458 Win Mag caliber.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DoubleD
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392207 - 27/06/25 09:54 PM

I myself have never worked with the .458 Winchester. Nor have I hunted in the environment where such a gun is needed/used. I have shot them. I only know the pro's and cons written about the cartridge.

I remember visiting the A-Square booth at the SHOT Show in 89 or 90. There were a number of these massive rifles on display. They were Impressive. I have shot one of these rifles, but do not remember what it was.

As to what it says in the A-Square catalog. It seems to match the commentary on the .458 in the time. But keep in mind Mr. Alphin was trying to Market his propriatary cartridges. I would expect him to say what he said about a competitor.

His loading manual entry on the .458 repeats this criticism of the era. But he also seems to say the .458 had a strong following.

I haven't heard much about the .458 in more recent times-what do PH's use thes days for back up-stopper rifles?

What is the status of the .458 these days?

I did try build one of these rifles using a P-14 action and chambering in .416 Remington Magnum. Never could get the gun to feed right, so I disassemble it and sold the parts all separately on Gunbroker.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (27/06/25 10:05 PM)

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buckstix
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: DoubleD]
      #392208 - 28/06/25 03:42 AM

Quote:

.... I only know the pro's and cons written about the cartridge.
As to what it says in the A-Square catalog. It seems to match the commentary on the .458 in the time. But keep in mind Mr. Alphin was trying to Market his propriatary cartridges. I would expect him to say what he said about a competitor.

His loading manual entry on the .458 repeats this criticism of the era. But he also seems to say the .458 had a strong following.

I haven't heard much about the .458 in more recent times-what do PH's use these days for back up-stopper rifles?

What is the status of the .458 these days?...


As I stated above ..."over the last 71 years, the 458 Win Mag caliber has taken more dangerous game than any other caliber." Most of the early bad press about the cartridge does not apply with today's (30+ years later) modern ammo and hand-loading capability. And, you are correct about Art marketing "his" cartridges ... that's why the A-Square rifle in 458 Win Mag is so very rare. I believe most PHs today use larger calibers in double rifles for back-up.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392209 - 28/06/25 07:31 AM

My .458 Alaskan had just a bit of capacity over the .458 Win Mag and easily did over 2,200fps with 510gr. Winchesters.
It also easily did over 2,400fps with 400gr. using Barnes data for .458 Win Mag.
The "bad rap" as I understand it, was due to bad or poor storage of ammunition, which downgraded it's ballistics and also caused miss-fires.
Until that happened, it was well reported on, seems to me as it's ballistics met or achieved most of the DG Rifle ballistics of 500gr. bullets at 2,150fps.
There are no flies on that ctg today, except perhaps when it is downloaded on purpose.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #392211 - 28/06/25 09:47 PM

Hello DarylS,

Depending on body taper, the 458 Alaskan is either 1 grain more, or 1 grain less, H2o capacity compared to the 458 Win Mag. So for all practical purposes they are identical and loading data is interchangeable. Your comparison is noteworthy, and modern data has killed the bad reputation about the 458 Win Mag and brought it back to life.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392212 - 29/06/25 12:16 AM

Yes, of course depends on body tap I suppose. JJ Donnely reported it as being 7gr. more, iirc, but equal sounds more reasonable.
It also makes sense being equal as to my results mirroring Barnes data.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rule303
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #392223 - 29/06/25 09:55 AM

"over the last 71 years, the 458 Win Mag caliber has taken more dangerous game than any other caliber."

Thats a big call. The 375H&H would have been the No1 I would have thought.

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buckstix
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: Rule303]
      #392224 - 29/06/25 11:04 AM

Quote:

"over the last 71 years, the 458 Win Mag caliber has taken more dangerous game than any other caliber." Thats a big call. The 375H&H would have been the No1 I would have thought.

Me also, except that many countries recommend 40 cal or above for dangerous game.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392233 - 30/06/25 01:19 AM

Quite possible, that over the last 110 years, the .375 rules.
'Course, the 9.3x62 would have high numbers as well, however used more by farmers protecting their crops than by hunting men and women.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rule303
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392240 - 30/06/25 09:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

"over the last 71 years, the 458 Win Mag caliber has taken more dangerous game than any other caliber." Thats a big call. The 375H&H would have been the No1 I would have thought.

Me also, except that many countries recommend 40 cal or above for dangerous game.



True but on the side of the 375H&H is Australia with Water Buffalo and India with Tigers, Bears I guess. On the side of the 458 would also be Alaska and Canada with Bears.

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DarylS
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: Rule303]
      #392252 - 01/07/25 12:13 AM

For many years, "our own" Phil Schomaker used a .458 Winch in a M70 as his backup rifle in Alaska. Not long ago his bullet of choice was the 400gr. TSX Barnes IIRC.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #392254 - 01/07/25 01:13 AM

Quote:

For many years, "our own" Phil Schomaker used a .458 Winch in a M70 as his backup rifle in Alaska. Not long ago his bullet of choice was the 400gr. TSX Barnes IIRC.

My field test load is with 60g IMR4198 with a 405g Remington bullet. I am expecting approx. 2150 fps. I will post results with target later this week. I expect this will be a FUN load.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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Rule303
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Re: Finally found one of the Rarest A-SQUARE Hannibal Rifles [Re: buckstix]
      #392259 - 01/07/25 10:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

For many years, "our own" Phil Schomaker used a .458 Winch in a M70 as his backup rifle in Alaska. Not long ago his bullet of choice was the 400gr. TSX Barnes IIRC.

My field test load is with 60g IMR4198 with a 405g Remington bullet. I am expecting approx. 2150 fps. I will post results with target later this week. I expect this will be a FUN load.



That should be a fun load and easy on the shoulder.

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