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buckstix
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Loc: Whitetail Country
I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load
      #391649 - 20/05/25 10:26 AM

I bought this Isaac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - no clue what to load

Hello All,

I bought this 8 Bore Big game rifle at the last Poulin Auction but I have no clue what to load for it.

Bore measures .850" and I bought some .830" round balls. Now I need to find out how much powder to use and patch thickness.

any suggestions?

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/8bore-000.jpg



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Jim_C
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Reged: 09/08/14
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: buckstix]
      #391652 - 20/05/25 03:08 PM

Nice rifle! Daryl should be along soon with better ideas than I have, but FWIW:

My notes--put together back when I bought what I thought was an 8 bore that turned out to be a 6 bore--say 10 drams with ball. A dram is, IIRC, 27.3 grains, making the charge ~270 grains. The velocity mentioned was around 1,500 fps.

Assuming pure lead, a ball measuring .830" should weigh 860 grains. This would make the charge slightly more than 1/3 the weight of the ball. A couple of the early writers mentioned using charges in the neighborhood of 1/3 ball weight.

Powder choices are somewhat limited by availability, but 1F or 1 1/2 F Swiss would probably be the best places to start. Honestly, I'd start low (~150 grains or so) and work up to my recoil tolerance/accuracy/trajectory matching the sights.

For patching I'd probably go with 10 ounce canvas duck, washed a couple times to remove the sizing. If I couldn't conveniently source any (or couldn't wait) Key brand overalls (from the nearest farm supply store) are close. For patch lube, I'd try neatsfoot oil, olive oil, or mink oil.

Edited by Jim_C (20/05/25 03:09 PM)


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DarylSModerator
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: Jim_C]
      #391656 - 20/05/25 11:58 PM

What a beautiful rifle, buckstix. Great score.
Jim of course, is spot-on with his recommendations. All good advice, imho.
I fully agree with Neetsfoot oil or Trackofthewolf's mink oil for lube. I've never tried the liquid olive oil myself. These big bores use a lot of powder, which produces a lot of fouling, 56% of which is particulate fouling. Much of it remains in the bore, so enough lube (thick enough patch) is needed to keep it soft to allow the next load being pushed down the bore, as well as being left in the bore to allow the next shot being loaded.
Jim's advice on 10 ounce duck is good. I use 10 ounce denim which I currently measure at .021", compressed in calipers as hard as I can squeeze between finger and thumb on the tines.
Patches need to be wet.
I see the muzzle needs a quick 'fix' to allow loading snug loads. Here is a copy of a post I made recently on another forum.
"After being in this "game" for many years and having a penchant for extracting the best accuracy possible from a given barrel, there are a few things I have found through experience to be vital to have results that I can live with - and quickly.
The first thing is to smooth the machined crown of the muzzle. Machined crowns usually have about a 45 degree angled cut from outside the groove diameter to the bore (tops of the lands).
This 'crown' leaves 2 short corners that the patch and ball must "conform" to before they are fully entered into the bore.
The method I use is either with a lathe or just the end of my thumb pressed into the bore with either 320 emery cloth or 320 wet/dry paper between my thumb and the muzzle's machine-cut crown.
With a rotating motion of the wrist, those sharp machine cut-edges are smoothed. I turn the barrel or gun 90 degrees every 15 seconds or so, so that the "smoothing" is uniformly progressed around the muzzle. What the end result becomes, is a finish at the crown that allows a VERY snug ball and patch to form into the bore, giving a seal on both the bore (tops of the lands) and in the bottom of the grooves.
Once this is done, the actual bore and groove dia. are measured, then a ball (mould) of .005" under bore size is selected, along with 10 ounce (.021" to .022") denim is selected. With .32 cal. I start at 25gr., 30gr. with .36, 50gr. with .40, 60gr. with .45(all 3F, then 80gr. 2F with .50 and above calibres.
I use wet patches for target shooting, mostly WWWF with a tich of Neetsfoot oil (2oz. to a quart). Once on paper at close range, with target at 50, I start load development, going up 5 gr. at a time until the "accuracy" load is found for that rifle and combination. With this process, no wiping is required at any time during load development on any given day. Of course, clean the rifle properly at the end of the shooting session.
Note, do not use a water soluble 'lube' for hunting, where the "load" will remain in the bore for over a few minutes.
I tried to get the pictures of muzzle crowns to re-print, but failed at that. This is the thread I spoke of.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=84556.msg827571#msg827571

Buckstix, for that big bore, .830", a tapered stone with 1/4" or 38" drive stem can be wrapped with emery or wet/dry paper to smooth the sharp edges of the crown.
This will allow easier loading. The ball and patch combo must give some compression in the bottom of the grooves to effectively seal the flame and pressure behind the ball and also reduce the fouling left in the bore.
I feel your choice of a .020" smaller ball is likely a good one as the larger the ball, the more lead must be moved to fit tightly.
Measuring the rate of twist is also a good idea. Many of these older guns have quite fast rates of twist, however some also had very slow twists. The faster the twist, the less powder is used to get good accuracy. The slower the twist, more power is required.
According to W.W.Greener in the 9th Edition of "The Gun", the 8 bore (.835") ctg. load was 10 drams with an 862gr. ball.
This will be an excessive load for a muzzleloading rifle, imho, especially if the rate of twist is much shorter than 100".
Jim's suggestion of 150gr. to start is, I think, a good one and to proceed as you see fit.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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DarylSModerator
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: DarylS]
      #391657 - 21/05/25 12:04 AM

Further, I just noticed a crack between the lock screw and the breech of the stock.
With the barrel (easily) removed, this can be 'repaired' post haste with "ultra-thin" cyanoacrylate (CA) glue found in hobby stores for building radio controlled model airplanes.
The ultra-thin glue will 'wick' into the crack and seal it perfectly. My 14 bore rifle's stock cracked in exactly the same place when I accidentally doubled charged it with 330gr.
2F powder. That was over 30 years ago and it has stayed in one piece since that time, with well over 1,000 full power loads of 165gr. 2F.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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buckstix
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: DarylS]
      #391660 - 21/05/25 03:02 AM

Thanks for the detailed info. I've pictured some of the proofs for interest. There is a small J.N. stamp in front of the wedge cage. I wonder if anyone knows anything about this stamp.

I did as suggested and super-glued the crack. I also used an old tapered plum bob with various grit papers (120 to 600) to bevel the muzzle. I did find that the wedge was years ago broken with half missing. (see pics) Not sure if this is a shooting issue or not.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/8bore-proofs.jpg



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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93x64mm
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: buckstix]
      #391669 - 21/05/25 06:08 AM

Make some smoke Buckstix.......& plenty of it

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DarylSModerator
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: 93x64mm]
      #391671 - 21/05/25 08:16 AM

Good job on the muzzle - wonderful job, actually.
As far as the wedge goes, with the barrel in the stock, there should be little to no fore and aft movement when tugging and pushing on the barrel.
The wedge should be a fairly loose fit in the barrels trunnion anyway. I do not think that is a serious problem, but would likely make a new wedge regardless and save the original in a box.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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buckstix
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: DarylS]
      #391676 - 21/05/25 11:57 AM

I have the piece of the wedge that broke off, and I silver soldered it back in place. It fits nicely and looks ok.



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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DarylSModerator
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: buckstix]
      #391681 - 22/05/25 12:11 AM

Good job.
You can even add the pin to make that wedge a captured wedge as designed.
Appears from the barrel channel, someone tried to remove the wedge forcefully and that may be what chipped the original pin's upper location.
I would be VERY excited to cast some balls, obtain some patch material and get shooting this beautiful rifle.
10 to 20 passes up and down the bore with WD40's piece of maroon Scotch Brite on a jag might be a very good idea.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: DarylS]
      #391682 - 22/05/25 03:28 AM

Quote:

Good job. I would be VERY excited to cast some, obtain some patch material and get shooting this beautiful rifle.
10 to 20 passes up and down the bore with WD40's piece of maroon Scotch Brite on a jag might be a very good idea.


I couldn't find any 8ga round ball molds so I bought some .830 precast balls. I scrubbed the barrel and used a chrome polish to smooth things out. Next stop is the range when it stops raining.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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DarylSModerator
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: buckstix]
      #391683 - 22/05/25 05:45 AM

Buckstix, this used to be the Jeff Tanner mould business, now with Jeff's passing, it continues to run by his son. They will cut any size you want, from brass. Normal handles fit their moulds. I have 5 of them, myself, from .595" to .740".
https://www.ballmoulds.com/

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: DarylS]
      #391684 - 22/05/25 06:09 AM

Quote:

Buckstix, this used to be the Jeff Tanner mould business, now with Jeff's passing, it continues to run by his son. They will cut any size you want, from brass. Normal handles fit their moulds. I have 5 of them, myself, from .595" to .740".
https://www.ballmoulds.com/




Beautiful Moulds there Daryl, you can order the perfect size for your bore - no wonder you got 5!


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Huvius
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: 93x64mm]
      #391686 - 22/05/25 07:04 AM

I ordered my .835" mold from them in 2020 and it was quick and cost just 50gbp shipped.
No matter how you spell it - an excellent mould!

I believe the "service" load for an 8 is 300grs of powder. I've run up to 240gr and see no need to go any higher than that.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1357
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: Huvius]
      #391688 - 22/05/25 10:26 AM

I'm not going to play much with round balls. The 40 I bought will do just fine. I ordered a custom 8ga hollow base mold from Accurate Molds, and I will make with a variable hollow base plug to vary the weight. That way I won't have to mess around with patches and spit.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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Huvius
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: buckstix]
      #391690 - 22/05/25 12:32 PM

I simply used round 2" cleaning patches and olive oil for lube.
Can't get much easier than that!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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DarylSModerator
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Re: I bought an Isac Hollis 8 Bore Big game rifle - what to load [Re: Huvius]
      #391695 - 22/05/25 11:02 PM

Spit for patches in an 8 bore would have the saliva glands working overtime. Many people in our age group cannot muster up that much spit.
Grease or an oil that will soften BP fouling is needed for hunting in a BP ML or CTG gun. Neestfoot Oil works as-does Trackofthewolf's Mink Oil, which is more of a soft grease.
If spit or other water soluble product is used for hunting, you will likely pit the bore.
Going to shoot the ALR postal match today with my bro(if it doesn't rain).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by DarylS (23/05/25 04:54 AM)


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