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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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NitroXAdministrator
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A discussion on double rifle optics and sights
      #391224 - 19/04/25 06:07 AM

A discussion on double rifle optics and sights.

Main relevancy for this discussion is for double rifles, but also a lot of relevancy for single shots, combinations, bolt actions and other firearms.

Sights such as V express sights, peep sights, dot reflex sights, other dot sights, scopes.

Some users will say a double rifle will propose only open sights are suitable for double rifles. But some wish to use scopes, other optics, red dot sights. And some shooters have aging eyesight and find open sights difficult to use. Reflex sights are sometimes an answer.

Balançe is a possible consideration. Appearance may be another.

Peep sights on a double rifle are fairly rare. Maybe another solution for some shooters?

Of relevance to double rifles is regulation of the barrels bullets points of impact. Relevant on a regulated double rifle is the sights it has been regulated for. Changing the rifles sights may affect regulation. If a double rifle has been regulated for its express sights, fitting a bulky big heavy scope may mean the double rifle no longer will regulate.

When ordering a bespoke double rifle, or having a gunmaker re-regulate an existing double rifle, adjusting the barrels, the gunmaker will have the client specify the chosen sights. Express sights, reflex sight, specific scope. It's used in the barrel regulation process. It's luck if other sights will work or not. Fiddling with reloaded ammunition may help.

Why do you choose your type of sights? On what sort of firearm? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

The most common and standard double rifle sight is the V and V express sights. Standing leaf and possibly additional leaves.




V Express sights on a W.J. Jeffery double rifle. The standard on most double rifles. These leaves are optimistically out to 500 yards on a .450 NE.

Reflex dot sights are often a choice. Small and lighter they may affect regulation to a lesser extent. Often a choice for those with failing eyesight. Astigmatism may be a factor for some, the dot circle becoming a non distinct star image. Reflex sights are 1x, non magnified. Allow a reasonably open target picture. Are considered by some to allow faster sighting.



Holosun open reflex sight. Trijicon, Docter, Leopold, and others make similar.

Some shooters choose another type of red dot sight. Like a scope in appearance. It has a red dot, or maybe other types of illuminated dot or reticle. These sights are not magnified, 1x only.





Aimpoint red dot sight, 1x no magnification.

Scopes are chosen by many double rifle owners as an alternative or addition to open sights.

Sometimes ridiculously bulky, looking out of place, possibly affecting the balance of a double rifle. They do allow lesser eyesight shooters to aim their rifles. And with magnification allow longer range shots, assuming regulation is not an issue.



The Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 illuminated scope.



The Leupold 1-4.5x illuminated scope.

I have deliberately displayed two scopes with variable ranges beginning with a 1x magnification. With a higher but useful upper variable magnification. In this instance 4.5x and 6x.

Tubes of 30 mm and 35 mm on modern scopes are adding to their bulk,

***

My thoughts in addition to the above comments.

The standard for double rifles is a good wide open V rear sight. Perhaps with additional leaves, on an express sight. Even if we rarely use the extra leaves, they're nice to have on a quality rifle.

V sights can work very well on closer range shots. As range increases they become more difficult to sight with accurately. In pre scope times, we used to shoot with them far better than now when we've been spoiled by scopes.

Open metal sights are the most reliable, It takes much more to knock them out of alignment, comparent to optics. No battery needed either.

Peep ring sights are used on some DRs. They MAY avoid some V sight issues. I don't have any experience with DR peep sights.

Older shooters with lessening eyesight may find it difficult to use their vintage rifles equipped with open V sights. A way to continue using their vintage sights might be to fit a red dot reflex sight. As has been discussed before, vintage DR owners might refit a new express sight grooved to fit a reflex sight. Keeping the original to maintain authenticity in case the vintage rifle is sold.

Modern DRs don't have this problem, vintage authenticity, and might be already so setup.

It is also easier for shooters in the scope age to use reflex dot sights than V sights.

The reflex red dot sight may be faster to use than a V sight, the sight being in one plane, not two, plus the target. They also allow an open sight picture of the target.

The reflex sight does not have magnification.

I find, say a 2 MOA dot, rather small for quick sight acquisition, But larger dots, 2x plus MOA does not improve medium and longer range accuracy.

Being lighter and smaller a reflex sight might not affect existing regulation or as much.

These reflex sights are mostly used on handguns nowadays. Plus often on AR type rifles. Closer range, lesser accurate shooting but faster sight acquisition. Similar to a dangerous game stopping double rifle. Close range, fast shooting, fine accuracy of lesser importance.

One rarely sees open reflex sights on other rifles. Unless it's attached as a supplementary sight on a scope. Few choose to mount an open reflex sight on their .30-06 or .375.

Some shooters may choose a tube red dot sight like the aimpoint pictured, No magnification, 1x only. Personally I don't see their purpose. A variable illuminated scope with a 1x lower range does much the same. But has a zoom magnification advantage,

Scopes. For me a 1x lower magnification is essential. A 4x or 6x upper magnification allows finer shooting at longer ranges. Or on smaller targets. The 1x with both eyes open, allows quick shooting. Close range and in thick country. Yes express sights are the standard. Zooming the magnification extends the useful range.

For a combination rifle such as my 12g/.223, shooting rabbits, hares, head shooting foxes, a 1x is hopeless. I prefer a 8x scope on my bolt action. However a 4x or better a 6x is a compromise. Shooting the shotgun, no scope is of course the best by far, But a variable scope on 1x can suffice.

A variable scope might permit a DR to shoot well at medium and longer ranges. Subject to rifle accuracy and regulation bullet impacts as the target ranges is increased, As I have speculated, if one of the double rifle barrels is sighted in and tested at longer ranges, using the double rifle as a "single shot" might be a feasible alternative. There is precedent is this in some rare vintage double rifles were set up, to have one barrel, e.g. the right barrel, attuned to the rifle sight leaves for longer ranges.

An illuminated scope adds the advantages of a scope. Low light. Quicker target acquisition. Heavier and bulkier can be a disadvantage,

***

I like open express sights,

But also like the idea of a scope
essential for small game use. Very useful for medium game hunting. My 9.3x74R U/O DR has an illuminated scope, close to 1x, and 4.5x upper range. An unusual circle, with fine dot plus other reticle bits design. I'd fit a scope on a versatile .375 DR. Maybe a .416. On larger bores, I'd not use a scope. Open V sights much preferred. If my eyesight permits still in the future. Otherwise I'd be looking at a dot point reflex. And 1x plus variable scopes. Preferably a lighter scope, preferably illuminated reticle if affordable.

***

Please post your thoughts, comments, what you use and why? Everyone has their own preferences and experiences.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: NitroX]
      #391232 - 20/04/25 01:38 AM

Check ALL variable scopes for zero at different power settings. I recall a Leuy and a Redfield both 1x5x21mm(or22m) & neither striking within an inch at 25 yards at 1x, when zeroed at 5x.
Maybe I am being too picky?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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85lc
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: DarylS]
      #391233 - 20/04/25 01:57 AM

John, that is an excellent discussion. Just a couple of comments.

Red dot tube scopes: I use those on two handguns. On is a 454 Casull and the other is a 30 Merrill. I changed out tube scopes for pistol scopes which I found somewhat difficult to use in the woods.

Red dot size: I use 2 mil which I find easy to use. My hunting buddy only uses 1 mm as he says that larger dots cover up too much of the animal for accurate shooting.

Scopes look fine on double rifles however I would never mar a vintage double rifle by adding a scope.

Red dots look OK on modern rifles but looks like a big wart on a vintage rifle.

My thoughts are that if one cannot see iron sights and will not get shooting glasses to allow one to see the iron sights + target, they just need to get a modern rifle and not bugger up a nice vintage rifle.

--------------------
RB


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pondoro62
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: 85lc]
      #391358 - 28/04/25 04:41 PM

I scoped my .470 Krieghoff with a red dot Leupold, in a swing mount. Plenty eye distance..

I am very pleased with this..took 2 cape buffalo.. The scope is fast detachable when in dense bush and the red dot make for fast shots.


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DarylS
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: pondoro62]
      #391363 - 28/04/25 11:17 PM

One good aspect of the dot dights, is both eyes open.
You see more.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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eagle27
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: DarylS]
      #391387 - 30/04/25 08:38 AM

I too find scopes or red dot sights rather out of place aesthetically on double guns but recognise that they serve a purpose for those with compromised eyesight, as I have.
These sights are generally fine on bolt actions as we have all grown up with this concept and a rifle today with just iron sights is more the exception than the rule.

The worst aspect of scopes and red dot sights is how much they affect the carry-ability of rifles and doubles in the hand. I find it is always nice to carry and handle shotguns without the adornments of scopes etc., and when hunting buffalo, my English safari sighted Mauser 404 was a joy to carry and use but alas my eyesight required something better as time went on. First an OEG red dot was fitted then later an EER pistol scope took the red dots place. Both these sights worked well, used with both eyes open although the pistol scope can be used one eye shut if preferred.


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DarylS
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: eagle27]
      #391390 - 30/04/25 09:35 AM

Most gun builders I know, position the rear sight so it is not in the hand while carrying. Of course, modern guns and double rifles "carry" more weight in the action, so this positioning of sights might not be possible.
A conundrum for sure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: DarylS]
      #391395 - 30/04/25 12:48 PM

"Some shooters may choose a tube red dot sight like the aimpoint pictured, No magnification, 1x only. Personally I don't see their purpose. A variable illuminated scope with a 1x lower range does much the same. But has a zoom magnification advantage,"

The difference is Parallax and the eye box. With the Aimpoint it is fairly much parallax free, and the shooters eye can be close or 3 feet away. The dot does not have to be in the center of the optic and if the dot is on target, you are on target.

This is not the case with a regular rifle scope even on 1X. The Reflex sight can be used to any distance you like and if you know the hold over you will hit your target if the shooter and rifle are capable. People use to shoot to a 1000yds/mts with open sights so if the shooters eyes are capable why not do it with a reflex sight.

Edit to add. I have one of the longer Aimpoints on my 416Rigby simply because when I bought it there were no rings for the shorter Aimpoints to fit the CZ 550 about and the H1 and H2 were not in exsistance.

Edited by Rule303 (30/04/25 12:51 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: A discussion on double rifle optics and sights [Re: Rule303]
      #391401 - 01/05/25 12:13 AM

Some good comments on the replies. Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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