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CJF
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What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double?
      #390805 - 31/03/25 11:22 AM

I just won a mid-1880s Charles Lancaster double rifle at auction. The pictures of the top rib show what a scope mount that appears to have a single mount on the gun. Any idea what type of scope mounting system this is?



The auction pics can be viewed here: https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a...Q3vMvblda7Ystc_

And while I haven't yet mounted a red dot on a DR, this almost screams to be used for that purpose, with a custom adaptor plate. Something small like a Trijicon RMR or SRO. If for no other reason than seeing if my old eyes and iron sights can match a red dot.

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #390806 - 31/03/25 12:16 PM

This might give a better view:



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eagle27
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #390809 - 31/03/25 02:43 PM

It looks like a pretty amateur attempt at making some sort of mount for god only knows what sort of sight, get rid of it. What is the rod like object behind the rear sight, is it some sort of flip up brass tipped sight that was used with whatever sight fitted that base?

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: eagle27]
      #390821 - 01/04/25 12:05 AM

I believe the rib with brass or ivory on it is to aid in low light sighting. Re the mount, I’ve seen one like it but unfortunately I don’t remember if it was early English or early German.

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85lc
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #390828 - 01/04/25 02:21 AM

Chris,

That is very similar to a sight base that is on a Val Kern drilling that I sold. It is a base that was commercially available probably 120 years ago. (My drilling was built around 1900 so the base was likely from that time period.)

I will email photos of the scope mount and base to you.

Axel will likely tell you what this base is called.

--------------------
RB

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85lc
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: 85lc]
      #390829 - 01/04/25 02:35 AM

Chris,

I meant to tell you that your new rifle looks wonderful. In the late 1800s, Lancasters were considered to be top of the line rifles. My Lancaster 450EX is very accurate. There is a nice writeup in one of tehDGJs about shooting Lancasters that you may eenjoy reading. Have fun shooting your new DR.

--------------------
RB

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LRF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: 85lc]
      #390830 - 01/04/25 03:35 AM

Congrats on the win. Nice looking double. I certain think the mount could be for a red dot. The 2 half holes on the breech side are similar to the pins used on the bottoms of some sights to lock them in place. As you search and play with the rifle keep us updated.

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: LRF]
      #390836 - 01/04/25 05:42 AM

Thanks all. If things follow the same timeline as my last purchase from these folks, I should have it in hand mid-June.

The scope base looks like it would have scope rings like the AKAH mount pictured over on germanhuntingguns.com. Will share that image later.

Edited by CJF (01/04/25 05:45 AM)

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #390837 - 01/04/25 06:53 AM

Here’s the AKAH mount from germanhuntingguns.com. Similar to the one 85lc share via email.




Open this link:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/ef477c67...35ea956b78.jpeg


(Traveling and trying to sort this out on my iPad vs PC. Will get this fixed later)

Chris

Edited by NitroX (16/06/25 11:26 PM)

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Claydog
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #390841 - 01/04/25 08:49 AM

No idea about the base but a very nice double.

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: Claydog]
      #391929 - 10/06/25 06:51 AM

Happy to say the rifle is now in the USA and should be delivered right after we return from our RV trip in a week, so hopefully an update won’t wait too long. A similar Lancaster sold here on GunBroker and I also grabbed that. Will see which looks and shoots better and probably let the other go. I fear I am becoming a Charles Gordon. So far the family hasn’t stepped in to intervene. Fingers crossed.

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #392063 - 16/06/25 11:08 PM

The Lancaster oval bore out of the Italian auction turned out to be a 500/450 3.25", so I will be hunting down more 416/500 brass, as that seems to be the only option here in the USA right now for 3.25" brass based on a 500 parent case. I might have a few left from the only other time I bought those (as donor cases for a 500/450 No1 Express.)

The rifle suffered a hit in transit that shattered the butt plate. That wasn't original, and appears to be only the black plastic portion of a Silvers-type recoil pad. The soft part of the pad isn't there at all. A small split to wood occurred at the widows peak of the recoil pad, but that should be easy to repair as it is clean and the chipped piece is there.

Looks to be a very nice rifle with some honest miles on it.

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DarylS
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #392066 - 16/06/25 11:25 PM

I'm happy for you, CJF!!
I just love that early fine scroll and anseth leaf engraving.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: DarylS]
      #392071 - 17/06/25 01:25 AM

Thanks Daryl. Still has some case colors in the usual places.

I need to start a second thread on this rifle and a second Charles Lancaster of similar vintage that also just arrived. The second rifle is indeed a 450BPE 3.25", in very high condition for the stock and action. The barrels were re-blacked and the barrel inscription is softened.

My intent is to get both shooting, and see which is a better performer for me, and presumably let the other go. Although I am still having a difficult time letting any of these old black powder express double rifles go to new homes.

Chris

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #392072 - 17/06/25 01:35 AM

Here are a few of the 2nd Lancaster:









This one has 28" barrels vs 26" on the 500/450.

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #392073 - 17/06/25 01:40 AM



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DarylS
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #392074 - 17/06/25 02:57 AM

What's not to like?
Are they both oval bore, or have normal cut rifling?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: DarylS]
      #392076 - 17/06/25 03:06 AM

Both oval bores. Never had one before and now there’s two. I’m a lucky guy

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DarylS
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #392077 - 17/06/25 03:28 AM

Interesting. Waiting with "baited (or is it (a)bated) breath" for some results on those two rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: DarylS]
      #392078 - 17/06/25 03:38 AM

I didn't know which it was (bated or baited), so I googled...

The correct phrase is "with bated breath," not "with baited breath." "Bated" means "reduced, restrained, or held," and "with bated breath" means to hold one's breath in anticipation or excitement. "Baited," on the other hand, means "lured with bait" or "taunted". (per google's AI)

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93x64mm
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: CJF]
      #392081 - 17/06/25 05:15 AM

You were baited CJF, caught hook line & sinker, waiting with bated breath for your 'twins' to arrive!
Now that you have them I think it best not to think of getting rid of any of your 'children'
Truly marvellous pieces you have there by the way, those Lancaster's were certainly beautifully made

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CJF
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Re: What is this scope mount on this Charles Lancaster double? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #392088 - 17/06/25 09:03 AM

Quote:

You were baited CJF, caught hook line & sinker, waiting with bated breath for your 'twins' to arrive!
Now that you have them I think it best not to think of getting rid of any of your 'children'
Truly marvellous pieces you have there by the way, those Lancaster's were certainly beautifully made



You’re right about that! And thank you.

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