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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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NitroXAdministrator
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The reality of elephant and human interaction
      #389542 - 11/02/25 03:41 AM

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1BpNLxx1LZ/

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DarylS
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389544 - 11/02/25 05:19 AM

A cat? - whatever, quite dead and raggity looking.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: DarylS]
      #389545 - 11/02/25 05:20 AM

A shamba farmers who was trying to protect his crop.

A comment on the video:

"
Happened close to where I was last week... Just a local farmer trying to save his crop. Sad reality in some parts of Tanzania. A number of people lose their lives or a forever handicapped as a result of human wildlife conflict. Dozens every year.

RES
"

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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85lc
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389546 - 11/02/25 06:06 AM

Ws that on the Disney channel, the same channel that shows bears cuddling with people??

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Huvius
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: 85lc]
      #389553 - 11/02/25 02:37 PM

That's pretty brutal...
I don't care how dead set you are on protecting your crops, shewing away elephants is not a recipe for long life.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: Huvius]
      #389559 - 11/02/25 06:49 PM

Trying to scare away a herd of elephants from your vital food crop, needed to feed your family for another year. With nothing but a tin pot and a spoon, banging away. Takes bravery and desperation.

No wonder locals turn to poaching. Your food crop is destroyed. One of your family members, Father, Mother, Child, has been killed.

A reason sustainable sporting hunting is so important. Safari fees pay for employment of locals. Cash income they would otherwise not have, Game guards to protect the wildlife from poachers. Financial incentive to protect the animals. Importantly is income paid to local people. If the villagers receive a cash payment from the hunting outfitter. Poaching might mean the cash payment is jeopardised.

If families are compensated for killed family members, reducing hardship. That would be a plus. I doubt that actually happens though. It probably only happens with very good generous outfitters. Or where the concession is owned by the local community and the chief doesn't pocket it all. Or where govt has set up a community scheme, such as the CAMPFIRE scheme in Zimbabwe.

Outfitters in Tanzania who pay staff barely $1 a day, but expect clients to pay huge "tips" to pay the actual wages, aren't generous. The opposite.

Sporting hunting pays much larger fees than photo tourism. Even more importantly hunting tourism goes to more remote, difficult areas than general tourism will. Tanzania I'd an excellent example of the importance of sporting hunting safaris, trophy hunting. Only give parks in Tanzania can turn a profit in Tanzania. Poor countries can't afford to throw money at wildlife. But sporting hunting safaris pay a profit at only seventy parks, reserves, concessions. Do any general tourists journey down to the wildlife wonderland the Selous? All that wildlife not in the five parks would be at risk without trophy hunting, sportung hunting safaris.

Many people even foolish shooters, other hunters HATE trophy hunting. They claim only the trophy is taken, the animals meat wasted. Many of these people are actually motivated by envy. The ability to hunt exotically. Or the income to afford it. Especially prevalent in the UK, the later. Of course we know especially in Africa, all the meat is used. Elephant, long, leopard. Especially the delicious antelope. Crocodile. The black seven eat putrid rotten meat. It is simply bias or pure pig ignorance to believe trophy hunted animal meat is not used. In North America it is often the law, the meat must be used. In Europe struct requirements and traditions. In Australia due to masses of pest ferals, few laws, few traditions and a lot of ignorant lazy bogans, a lot of meat which could be used isn't. Including lovely venison, "it's just a ffffing deer, let it rot" one lazy bogan forum owner used to say.

Safari trophy hunters usually can't take the meat home. Even when they would like to do so. Legal, health, agricultural quarantine restrictions usually apply.

I like to eat some of the game when in camp. I'm not fussy about it being my animals. It's neat, from an eland, warthog, kudu, guinea fowl, elephant etc. While beef is often a better meat, it's disappointing to get beef in camp. When hunting game.

Hunting scrub bull, water buffalo, banteng etc in the Aussie Top End, I like to bring some meat back. It'd be wonderful to butcher the whole animal(s) and bring them back. But would require a chiller trailer. Four days on hot baking roads. The fuel cost would be horrendous. Would also need multiple friends with freezers to share the meat around with.

Btw Aboriginals don't seem that interested in getting the meat. On my first water buffalo hunt,bwe should a younger buffalo. Cut off its legs and dropped one each st each of the local Aborigines four families. They seemed not very interested,

A Lutheran Pastor I shot fox drives with hunted buffalo near where I did, elsewhere. He hunted with the local Abos, and they butchered two buffalo to take to eat at home. I was glad to hear that.

I've gone a bit off topic.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: Huvius]
      #389560 - 11/02/25 06:51 PM

Quote:

That's pretty brutal...
I don't care how dead set you are on protecting your crops, shewing away elephants is not a recipe for long life.




Unfortunately not eating for a year for your family might be an even shorter life.

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John aka NitroX

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DarylS
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389571 - 12/02/25 05:35 AM

Even here: "It is unlawfull to kill wildlife and fail to remove from the carcass the edible portions to the person's normal dwelling place or to a meat cutter or the owner or operator of a cold storage plant." It goes on to talk about fur bearers other than a black bear, etc & etc.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Claydog
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389575 - 12/02/25 09:00 AM

Quote:




Btw Aboriginals don't seem that interested in getting the meat. On my first water buffalo hunt,bwe should a younger buffalo. Cut off its legs and dropped one each st each of the local Aborigines four families. They seemed not very interested,





Yeah alot of them don't really like to eat buffalo. Especially if there are cattle around. They prefer meat from the oldest scrub bull over a young buffalo.


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DarylS
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: Claydog]
      #389578 - 12/02/25 10:15 AM

The people in Africa do as well, the stronger the meat, the stronger it will make them, or so I have heard. (right or wrong)

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Marrakai
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: DarylS]
      #389584 - 12/02/25 05:13 PM

Daryl:
What Clayton said, but its not all about taste.
Sure, they like the fat, but the sad reality of our local indigenous mob on country is rampant gum disease. Quite simply, "bullocky" is a lot easier to chew than buffalo.
Once the liver and tongue have been removed from a field-shot buffalo, interest sometimes wanes as they look for a spot for the cooking fire, whereas a "redskin" will often be cut up till nothing remains.

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When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: Marrakai]
      #389585 - 12/02/25 06:05 PM

Too much sugar

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389604 - 13/02/25 12:44 PM

"redskin"- all big red kangaroo.

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Daryl


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: DarylS]
      #389610 - 13/02/25 11:35 PM

Quote:

"redskin"- all big red kangaroo.




Beef cattle. I think Marrakai means. Buffalo are usually black.

We have black cattle. Angus cattle are often black. Brahmin cattle are usually grey-white.

I've shot a great big red scrub bull or two.

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389622 - 14/02/25 07:34 AM

OK - understand. I've seen pictures of red wild cattle.

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Rule303
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: DarylS]
      #389631 - 14/02/25 01:33 PM

If that was a person, then whoever it was grew a nice long feline tail.

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LRF
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: Rule303]
      #389653 - 14/02/25 10:55 PM

Rule303, +1 on the tail comment.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: LRF]
      #389658 - 15/02/25 03:24 AM

There are some clever advertisements titled "You need Specsavers".

Two arms and two legs and he is wearing clothes ....

And I posted a direct quotation from a PH from near the area where the incident happened ...

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Rule303
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389683 - 15/02/25 02:26 PM

Well I just went over that vid again, and more then once or twice. Stopping and starting. The body in some shots like's human but how do you explain the tail??? Best I can come up with is it is some of the clothing, however it would be unusual, I feel, for a piece of clothing to look like a big cats tail, especially when it appears that way at least twice.

PS this was viewed wearing glasses from Specsavers.


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Rule303
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389684 - 15/02/25 02:43 PM

Nitrox, I meant to mention earlier, your main post is quite correct. With the 2 cull Elephants I shot villagers were there within 10 to 15 minutes. By the time they had finished only some clean bones remained, yep even some of the bones were taken, for what use I never did ask.

With the Buff I shot the PH kept the front half for the head and the camp staff. The back half was dropped off at a village.

At a place I did some culling on, in Namibia the meat was A) cooked up in their restaurant, B) given to the village people on the game farm C) Used as Lion Bait, D) put into vacuum sealed packs and sold. The money from the game meat sales went to help with the schooling of the village kids.

This Game Ranch was the place they filmed the John Wayne movie Hatari.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: Rule303]
      #389689 - 15/02/25 04:28 PM

Quote:



At a place I did some culling on, in Namibia the meat was ...

This Game Ranch was the place they filmed the John Wayne movie Hatari.




Are you sure?

Maybe some game scenes?

"Hatari" was made in the "Golden Age of Hollywood Safari movies", when Kenya was king. I'm sure I've read about the movie "Hatari" and the other Hollywood movies of the age, being major outfitter ventures in Kenya. When I find my copy of Bartle Bulls encyclopaedic "Safari", it might refer to "Hatari".

Thanks for your comments on the use of game. In meat hungry Africa, only the urban gooses many buying their shrink wrapped vegan "lab-meat" cannot understand how real people use real meat. Even lion meat.

You've summed up well the different uses of meat. Eaten by the hunters and staff. Given to local villagers. Used as bait. Sold commercially.

Even if some meat was to be left, which is not done, hyenas, jackals, cats, vultures have to eat too. When I lost my one and only lost animal in Africa, a hartebeest. The wife of the land owner said "the carnivores have to eat too.". Or some such term.

I've got a still from the video clearly showing a human in clothing. When he is being swung around by a leg or legs, a arm does flap around. The video isn't good. But even shamba growers seem to have mobile phone cameras now. (I'm assuming)

I've got a copy now of the video. I'll load up. In case farcebook ever deletes it as "violent". The lack of quality of the video has probably saved it from censorship by FB ai so far. I'll load up the still as well.

The video is excellent material as to why sustainable culling is needed to control excess to carrying capacity of elephants in parks. They'll raid outside of parks anyway, but when over populating an area, they will raid a lot. Human food crops get destroyed. How terrible that would be for a poor family. Starvation. And death by elephant is as the video shows aweful.

When hunting Omay on the shores of Lake Kariba, after my first cow elephant cull, we were told of elephants raiding shambas near the ranger station up on the highlands above the escarpment. Alas a cotton bale carrying large truck had tipped over sideways completely blocking the road half way up the escarpment. So we had to turn back. So I never had the experience of hunting the "shamba raiders".

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Re: The reality of elephant and human interaction [Re: NitroX]
      #389721 - 16/02/25 10:11 AM

Yes very sure about the Hatari movie being filmed there. They had letters from John Wayne and other actors thanking them. Also pic's of the owner with various actors and crew members.

It is where, I am told, the signing of Namibia's Independence from South Africa was signed. I have not checked this out.

Also the more I watch that vid and stop start it the more it looks like a human.

Edited by Rule303 (16/02/25 10:13 AM)


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