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CM76
.275 member

Reged: 21/04/22
Posts: 60
Loc: Wollongong, NSW Australia

Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE
#389035 - 21/01/25 06:36 PM

My smallest double rifle to date - Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE. Such a nice little hammer rifle, and perfect for small game.

Chris

Chris [image]

IMG_8233 by Chris Mulholland, on Flickr[/image]

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IMG_8235 by Chris Mulholland, on Flickr[/image]

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IMG_9629 by Chris Mulholland, on Flickr[/image]

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IMG_9631 by Chris Mulholland, on Flickr[/image] [image]

IMG_9633 by Chris Mulholland, on Flickr[/image]

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4288
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: CM76]
#389038 - 21/01/25 09:29 PM

Magnificent little rifle Chris!
Have you got her regulating data or are you you still working on it?

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CM76
.275 member

Reged: 21/04/22
Posts: 60
Loc: Wollongong, NSW Australia

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: 93x64mm]
#389040 - 21/01/25 10:04 PM

Quote:

Magnificent little rifle Chris!
Have you got her regulating data or are you you still working on it?

Thanks. I haven't got any load data for the little rifle as yet but hoping to pick up some components and information from the previous owner soon. It would be great to find a load that works, as I think it would be a joy to carry in the field.

Chris

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CJF
.333 member

Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 311
Loc: United States

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: CM76]
#389041 - 22/01/25 01:21 AM

Great rifle Chris and in a great cartridge. I have 3 rifles in 360 2.25", all black powder proofed. It's not just a small game cartridge - I took a nice 200lb buck with one of mine.

(curious - is that carpet pad you're using as a back drop in the last pictures? I have some saved I use as matts when cleaning my rifles.)

Chris

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85lc
.400 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1123
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: CJF]
#389044 - 22/01/25 03:33 AM

Chris,

That is a wonderful little rifle. Your rifle may be small in size and weight, but, as Chris F said, the 360 1/4" hits well above its weight.

I have a very nice Lancaster double rifle and was pleasantly surprised at how accurate it is.

There are a nimber of powders that you can use. IMR 4198 has been my go to powder. For black powder cartridges, I use between 40% and 45% of the black powder charge, looking for the most accurate load.

Best success at the range and in the field.

--------------------
RB

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27410
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: 85lc]
#389049 - 22/01/25 07:21 AM

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=335450&an=0&page=0

So Chris' rifle is a BPE.

Huvius had this to say:
"The Nitro version was surely a development of the 360 2-1/4" Black Powder Express cartridge which in turn was a development of the paper case 360.
Generally, the BP 360 used 50grs of powder and usually a 155gr to 190gr lead bullet and then the full nitro version used 190gr lead (22gr cordite)up to a 300gr jacketed (30gr cordite) bullet.
Early on, Alexander Henry offered ammunition for his wonderful 360 rifles loaded with round ball and 14grs of black powder which enabled the rifle to genuinely be appropriate for rook and rabbit up to small deer. It looks like Henry started chambering his rifles for this cartridge around 1869."

As well, in smokeless form, it was the 9.3x57R, was it not?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CM76
.275 member

Reged: 21/04/22
Posts: 60
Loc: Wollongong, NSW Australia

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: CJF]
#389051 - 22/01/25 07:32 AM

Quote:

Great rifle Chris and in a great cartridge. I have 3 rifles in 360 2.25", all black powder proofed. It's not just a small game cartridge - I took a nice 200lb buck with one of mine.

(curious - is that carpet pad you're using as a back drop in the last pictures? I have some saved I use as matts when cleaning my rifles.)

Chris

Thanks Chris.
The rifle is sitting on a 'furniture pad'. I picked up a whole bunch of these after doing a trip with a Penske truck in the US some years ago. They are reasonably soft, and ideal for placing on a bench/table when cleaning rifles and guns.

Chris

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CM76
.275 member

Reged: 21/04/22
Posts: 60
Loc: Wollongong, NSW Australia

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: 85lc]
#389052 - 22/01/25 07:45 AM

Quote:

Chris,

That is a wonderful little rifle. Your rifle may be small in size and weight, but, as Chris F said, the 360 1/4" hits well above its weight.

I have a very nice Lancaster double rifle and was pleasantly surprised at how accurate it is.

There are a nimber of powders that you can use. IMR 4198 has been my go to powder. For black powder cartridges, I use between 40% and 45% of the black powder charge, looking for the most accurate load.

Best success at the range and in the field.

Thanks RB, I appreciate the information.
It looks like the 360 2 1/4 will make for a practical round, and I am looking forward to the day when I can get the A&N shooting again.

Chris

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85lc
.400 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1123
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: CM76]
#389056 - 22/01/25 10:04 AM

Daryl,

The cartridge was also known (in Europe) as the 9.3x57/360.

There is a completely different cartridge known as the 9.3x57 which is basically the 8x57 cartridge necked up to 9.3.

You are correct about the loads foir teh 360 EX. Thanks for including.

--------------------
RB

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27410
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: 85lc]
#389058 - 22/01/25 10:37 AM

Yes, 9.3x57R. Different case than the typical 57mm rimless.
That was noted on one of the links from my Google search.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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degoins
.333 member

Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 445
Loc: SC, USA

Re: Army & Navy CSL 360 2 1/4 BPE [Re: DarylS]
#389087 - 24/01/25 12:48 AM

Gorgeous!!

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