Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: Whitetail Country
32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased
      #388249 - 15/12/24 11:09 PM

32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased

I collect Small Frame Martini rifles, and also collect Schuetzen rifles. ..... so .....

About a month ago, I found this for auction and I tagged it with a opening bid, (half the low estimate) because I wanted to see how high it would go.
Much to my surprise, no one else bid. I will have it in hand in a couple of weeks and I'm anxious to see what caliber it turns out to be. I'm hoping for 8.15x48R because many of my Schuetzen rifles are in this caliber and I have plenty brass and bullets.

As always, your comments are welcome.


http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/32MARTINI-SHUT-000.jpg



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9207
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: buckstix]
      #388250 - 15/12/24 11:59 PM

hello

8x15x46R is reasonable and would be a now brainer if you reload for this but prepare there are also odditys like 8,15x40R or 8,15x52R

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5299
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: lancaster]
      #388251 - 16/12/24 12:48 AM

Congratulations! That's a great rifle and package. I had my eye on it and thought about bidding. But my effort went toward the 8x60 kipplauf I posted earlier under the "Reloading" forum.

Curly

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9207
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: CptCurl]
      #388252 - 16/12/24 01:25 AM

sometimes you lose, sometimes the other guy wins

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: lancaster]
      #388254 - 16/12/24 03:29 AM

Quote:

hello

8x15x46R is reasonable and would be a now brainer if you reload for this but prepare there are also odditys like 8,15x40R or 8,15x52R

Based on the small action, 8.15x40R may be a reasonable assumption.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27214
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: buckstix]
      #388255 - 16/12/24 06:13 AM

8/15 x 46R is the re-barrel and chambering in a M71 Mauser I have.
Mine's a tight bore - 3:15 by measurement. Shoots quite well with 174gr. Hornady 3:12's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 992
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: DarylS]
      #388260 - 16/12/24 09:03 AM

Buckstix, just wondering if there is anything you don't collect? Sweet rifle by the way.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: Claydog]
      #388264 - 16/12/24 10:54 AM

Quote:

Buckstix, just wondering if there is anything you don't collect? Sweet rifle by the way.

Well, lets see ... I only collect ....
1873 French Ordinance revolvers
Colt Single Action Army revolvers
Merwin Hulbert revolvers
Smith & Wesson revolvers
Safari rifles
Brevex Mauser rifles
Double rifles
German/Austrian rifles
Leonard Mews Custom rifles
Bill Staege rifles
Schuetzen rifles
Wehrmanngewehr rifles
Bullpup Custom rifles
Martini rifles
M1 Garand rifles
Hopkins & Allen Shotguns
Van Adestine knives
Scagel knives
Randall knives
and other rifles, and revolvers, and shotguns, and knives, that interest me

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Claydog
.375 member


Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 992
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: buckstix]
      #388266 - 16/12/24 11:27 AM

So the answer is no.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3630
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: Claydog]
      #388308 - 19/12/24 11:09 AM

...and that speaks for most of us here!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: Marrakai]
      #388903 - 15/01/25 09:45 AM

I finally got this little rifle in hand today. But first I must comment about the very, very, bad customer service from Morphy Auctions. This was purchased Dec. 11, and paid immediately via credit card. They charged 42% above the hammer, and it took over a month to get it. I bought 4 items at 4 different auctions that weekend, and the other 3 arrived weeks ago.

Now, I'm still trying to identify the caliber. Its not 8.15x46R. Chamber cast is shown. Any suggestions would be welcome. Any info about the proof marks would also be welcome. There were no other markings found.

Overall condition is remarkable. Nearly 100% case colors remain. A 100% mint bore. A very unique and positive take-down system. Original Key for the double lock mahogany case. And 2 extra firing pins. As soon as I figure out the cartridge, I will load and post a range report.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/details.jpg



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27214
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: buckstix]
      #388905 - 15/01/25 10:35 AM

Looks like an undersized .41 Swiss Vetterli. Interesting round. I thought if any book had it, Donnelly's book would - to no avail.
1.325" case length is 33.6mm. The 7.9x33Kurtz is close, but no cigar due to body base dia. of .470", rim, shoulder angle and location.

Is yours perhaps a rimmed version or rimmed predecessor of the Kurtz ctg.?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: DarylS]
      #388910 - 15/01/25 03:09 PM

I am still not sure exactly what the cartridge is, but I made a few rounds from 303 brass. The picture shows - 3 formed brass at the left, a 38 special cartridge in the center, and 2 loaded rounds at the right. This scaled down cartridge is perfect for this scaled down Schuetzen rifle.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/32-cart.jpg



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27214
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: buckstix]
      #388922 - 16/01/25 07:12 AM

Did you have to turn the .303 case on the base, as their nominal size is .457"?
What did did you use for forming the shoulder?
It's a cute little round.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: DarylS]
      #388923 - 16/01/25 09:40 AM

I formed the 5 cases shown above, by shortening 303 brass, and triple annealing the body and neck area to make them dead soft. I then coated them with Corbin bullet swage lube, and gently tapped them into the rifle's chamber to reduce them to a press-fit size of the chamber. Finally I sanded each case by spinning them in the lathe, until they were reduced to the point where they would easily slip in-and-out of the rifle's chamber. I loaded these 5 cartridges with 13g 4227 and a 90g 32 cal. bullet. Expected velocity is 1700 fps. Test target to follow. I just ordered a set of 8x38R Tesching dies from C&H. I hope these will work.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27214
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: buckstix]
      #388926 - 16/01/25 11:47 AM

Well done for a few test cases.
That ctg.die set ( might work fine for re-loading already formed cases
but appears to have too sharp a shoulder in comparison to your chamber formed brass.
Looking forward to more work on this rifle & round.
This is what I found through Google.

T84 – 8 X 38R b ‘RP’ TESCHING (STAHL TYPE)

There are two different types of 8x38R Tesching case types with “RP” case dimensions. T7 is the type with the shorter c11mm neck and gradual shoulder which matches the case profile of the other “RP” Tesching cartridges and is probably the true “RP” type.

T84 is the other type and has a longer neck with a sharper more distinct shoulder. Utendoerffer/RWS produced both types but only ever listed one type in their catalogues. This is a similar but not interchangeable G. Roth 8.2x37R Tesching (T49). The T7 type is the commonest type and was also listed by G. Egestorff, B. Stahl in their c1905 catalogue and subsequently by Gecado until at least 1930. The RWS factory drawing M306 seems to show this type. It appears to have the same neck length as the 8x36R RP (T6) but with a longer case.

Early Utendoerffer catalogue drawings of the 8x38R RP seem to show a longer neck but then so do all the “RP” drawings. These are now considered to represent T7 which makes T84 a bit of a mystery. This long neck is more like the shape of the smaller calibre 7x38R La No1 (SC13). It is not just a 2mm longer neck version of the 8x36R RP (T6) as the shoulder is different – see images. It is possible that these long neck cases were produced (modified?) based on the catalogue drawing rather than the factory case drawings?

Egestorff listed their version as being Lorenz/ DWM case #93 with the same long neck and Lorenz/DWM listed case #93 (c1879) as “R.P.” showing a long neck also. However Egestorff examples show the T7 profile and Lorenz/DWM examples (which are not known to exist) would likely be T7 also.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1274
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: DarylS]
      #388933 - 17/01/25 12:05 AM

Quote:

Well done for a few test cases.
That ctg.die set ( might work fine for re-loading already formed cases
but appears to have too sharp a shoulder in comparison to your chamber formed brass.
Looking forward to more work on this rifle & round.

I am hoping that I can use the c&h dies to roughly form cases for fire-forming. The improvised cases I made are "too soft" in the body and caused extraction problems - sticking in the chamber. The tested load velocity was 1400fps ave.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27214
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 32 ? Cal Schmidt & Habermann Take-down Martini - cased [Re: buckstix]
      #388941 - 17/01/25 09:31 AM

Will lubing the cases until they harden up a bit through shooting them work?
The capacity of those cases is quite high, which I assume, resulted in lower vel. than expected.
I wonder if 5744 would work - or a case full of Trail Boss?
I assume the Trail Boss would result in 20,000 to 22,000psi breech pressure.
The resulting vel. with TB would likely be even lower, though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 32 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Huvius 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 804

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved