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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Well_Well_Well
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Loc: Australia
Joining components - Solder replacement
      #387972 - 30/11/24 01:19 PM

I’m interested in what the forum thinks;


Are there industrial glues that work in DRs?

Lots of bonding agents can deal with huge forces and temperature - many are oven cured.

Has anyone used these in a build?

I started wondering how to get Cerakote on a DR and here we are digging deeper….

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Re: Joining components - Solder replacement [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #387982 - 01/12/24 08:53 AM

I don't know about glues but Cerakote can be oven baked and there is a cold process or version as well. So I am told.

The oven bake I would think would be a relatively low temp as it does not cause the solder holding sights etc to melt

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Joining components - Solder replacement [Re: Rule303]
      #387983 - 01/12/24 09:14 AM

Kitchen oven. Max temp usually less than 450F, isn't it?
here we are. Google brought up Cerakote Temperatures:
"
The recommended temperatures for curing Cerakote depend on the type of Cerakote and the material being coated:

Elite Series: Cure at 300° Fahrenheit for 1 hour, then flash cure at 150°–180° Fahrenheit for 10–25 minutes
H-Series: Cure at 250° Fahrenheit for 2 hours, then flash cure at 150°–180° Fahrenheit for 10–25 minutes
Plastics or polymer: Cure at 150°–180° Fahrenheit for 2 hours

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Well_Well_Well
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Reged: 03/01/07
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Re: Joining components - Solder replacement [Re: DarylS]
      #387989 - 01/12/24 06:50 PM

That’s were I started wondering about adhesives as solder will (probably) melt at those temperatures whereas heat cured adhesive gets stronger.

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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
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Re: Joining components - Solder replacement [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #387991 - 01/12/24 09:26 PM

I believe some manufacturers of double guns are now using high strength epoxies for bonding on ribs etc. Things like liner barrels which in the past would have been soldered are now epoxied in.

Epoxies in terms of shear strength etc are as strong as, if not stronger than solders. But there are many different solders as well as many different epoxies so general statements can easily be disproved.

Will epoxy bonded parts still be in place in 100 years time, like 100 year old ribs on a fine double are still absolutely fine. Only time will tell.

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DarylS
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Re: Joining components - Solder replacement [Re: HeymSR20]
      #387993 - 02/12/24 04:53 AM

Solder has a higher melting point than any temp. for curing Cerakote.

:"Pure Lead: it has no additives or alloys and melts at 327.5°C or 621.5°F. Lead-Antimony Alloy: because lead has been compounded with antimony, it melts at a higher temperature. Lead-Tin Alloy: generally has a low melting point range of between 183-255°C or 361-491°F based on the composition."

I am not familiar with the the glues/epoxies you are talking about.
The strongest glues I am familiar with, break adhesion at 300F.

I let Google search for me and found this JB Weld Product:
"About this product:
HighHeat is a hand mixable epoxy putty stick specifically formulated to bond and repair materials that will be exposed to high temperatures in automotive and industrial maintenance applications. It cures to a tough, hard bond with little to no shrinkage. This industrial-strength product outperforms conventional epoxy putties at high temperatures and sets in 1 hr at room temperature. After 8 hr, it can be drilled, tapped, machined, ground, filed and painted. HighHeat is rated at a tensile strength of 800 psi and cures to a machine grey in color. It is able to withstand continuous heat exposure of 400 deg F and intermittent heat exposure to 550 deg F.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Joining components - Solder replacement [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #388006 - 03/12/24 03:17 AM

Quote:

I’m interested in what the forum thinks;


Are there industrial glues that work in DRs?

Lots of bonding agents can deal with huge forces and temperature - many are oven cured.

Has anyone used these in a build?

I started wondering how to get Cerakote on a DR and here we are digging deeper….


Curiosity: I'm guessing that you imagining joining the barrels and/or ribs with a permanent adhesive? The lumps?
This begs the question of how one would get the barrels regulated (or if need be, re regulated) if joined in such a manner?

This brings to mind the "California Rigby" double rifles of which I had read that the ribs (at least on some of them) were "glued" in place.
Can you say Bodger Gunsmithing?
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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