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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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LTK
.224 member


Reged: 27/02/24
Posts: 36
Loc: Alberta Canada
Shooting Black powder shot shells
      #384930 - 20/05/24 11:20 PM

Anyone here have experience shooting shot shells loaded with black powder?.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: LTK]
      #384931 - 21/05/24 01:13 AM

Yes some, in cylinder bored English SxS with 2.5" chambers.
My load was 75gr. 1F GOEX then 1/2" chusion, then 1 1/4oz. 7 1/2's, then "B" wad and roll crimped.
Broke 10 straight with that load. If using larger shot I would call it a 30yd. grouse load.
Further, I recall playing with BP loads back in the 70's and 80's in a couple choked guns. These seemed to shoot 1 choke tighter with BP than their designated choke.
In these I used the designated loads as printed on boxes of factory loads, ie:
3 to 4 drams of powder and standard ead columns. Using plastic wads resulted in coating the bores with plastic.
1 dram = 27.3gr.powder

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: DarylS]
      #384932 - 21/05/24 06:04 AM

How did you rid of the plastic down your bore Daryl?
Conventional solvents?

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sharps4590
.333 member


Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 270
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: 93x64mm]
      #384933 - 21/05/24 07:29 AM

Yes, for years and years.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: 93x64mm]
      #384934 - 21/05/24 07:34 AM

I use CRC 5-56 Multi-Purpose (similar product to WD40) to remove plastic wad residue in shotguns. Running a bronze brush followed by a patch through shotgun bores, even chrome lined bores, leaves them looking clean and shiny but spray CRC 5-56 down the bores and then look and you will see the plastic residue lifting from the bore surface. This 'dissolved' residue can be scrubbed out with brush and patch leaving perfectly clean bores.
While CRC 5-56 does affect certain plastics I use it to clean all surfaces of firearms including wood and plastic stocks and have found it does not affect any of the usual firearm finishes. Combined with fine steel wool it removes rust from blued surfaces without affecting the bluing.

CRC is a global entity including in the USA.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: eagle27]
      #384936 - 21/05/24 09:22 AM

Ed's Red is the duck's nuts for cleaning shotguns IMHO.
Nitro and black powder.
Shotgun bores need a lot of solvent due to the surface area, and Ed's Red can be made up in quantity dirt cheap compared with commercial bore solvents.
...and the 25% acetone component sorts any plastic fouling.
In practice I often use a decent spray of Inox wiped out with a wad of wet-strength paper towel (kitchen paper) when the nitro shottie is in day-to-day use during the waterfowl season, but BP needs more attention. "Never let the sun set on a fouled barrel"!

Pretty sure my BP load is now 80gr 2F under an ounce of Bismuth #3s, although being conservative I started off with 75gr powder. Velocity is a bit under 1000fps.
A very old article tossed up on the web HERE ends with an account of my first evening on the swamps with black powder in a Scott "Victoria" top-lever hammergun.
Hope you find it of interest.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: 93x64mm]
      #384937 - 21/05/24 10:39 AM

Quote:

How did you rid of the plastic down your bore Daryl?
Conventional solvents?



Stainless "tornado" brush and Hoppies #9.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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LTK
.224 member


Reged: 27/02/24
Posts: 36
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: DarylS]
      #384938 - 22/05/24 12:50 AM

So, what I am looking for is advice on shooting BP shot shells when playing clay games. I've been shooting muzzleloaders for 40 years and have shot some BP shot shells in the past but was only shooting a few rounds at a time hunting. I recently bought a .410 SXS and am loading it with black. I shot a round of skeet with it the other day and, as I suspected, the fouling was considerable after 25 shots. While I have some experience with MLer's, I am relatively new to Black powder cartridge. I have been experimenting with duplex loads in my 45-90 to reduce fouling (don't know if that actually works or not) rather than having to run a patch down the bore after each shot or two. So, when shooting a 25 shot Round of skeet, what do guys use for fouling mitigation?. Packing a water bottle and wiping stick would be a nuisance. Muzzle loaders have no such issue as they basically get wiped every time they are loaded. Also, what signs do you look for when deciding it is time to wipe?, anything in particular or just routinely wipe after X shots?.

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: LTK]
      #384940 - 22/05/24 01:17 AM

Quick question: are you using plastic wads or card & fibre?

Not a .410 but I have had good luck 20 & 12 bore with card & fibre wads where I infused (soaked) the fibre wads in melted SPG lube. Wonder Lube, Crisco, Olive Oil & beeswax, whatever would likely work as well.
No hard fouling issues……perhaps a bit messy to assemble the loads.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: 3DogMike]
      #384941 - 22/05/24 01:25 AM

I use dry wads in my 12 bore London gun. I did not have "trouble" with fouling and of course with removable barrels, simple to clean after the shoot which ended up in a shoot off, 20 some rounds, IIRC. My first time shooting that gun in earnest. Our local shoot was handled with only 14 shots on clay birds. Damn good load in that gun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: DarylS]
      #384942 - 22/05/24 01:31 AM

Duplex loads in a rifle do help considerably with fouling. I found a good bullet with 4 square grease grooves handles the fouling quite well if blowing through the tube after each shot using straight BP. I use 3 breaths with a bore riding bullet. A grease cookie separated from the powder by a thin wad of bee brood foundation or wax paper, then a card wad and bullet allows at least 10 accurate shots without having to wipe the bore. Then all the fouling can be pushed out the bore with one DRY patch.
This was the late Paul Mathews method and it works to perfection.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
.333 member


Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 270
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: DarylS]
      #384945 - 22/05/24 05:27 AM

I've been shooting a Shiloh Sharps in 45-90 for 35 years and never had to duplex a powder charge. My load is 80 grs., drop tubed and a bullet with plenty of grease capacity. The Lyman 457125 is a great example. Basically most Lyman bullets are as is the RCBS 500 BPCR, (I think that's right). In my experience, once a charge goes over 80 grains fouling control becomes more of an issue and I use a grease cookie. I also use one if I can't find a bullet that carries enough lube, usually it's smaller caliber cartridges. If shooting matches a blow tube works wonders.

I do duplex the loads for my 11.15 X 60R double rifle. It's BP and the only way I could achieve enough velocity for it to regulate was to start with 5 grs. of SR-4759 under 68 grs. of Ffg. It shoots extremely clean.

For shotgun shells I do as 3DogMike does, saturate the fiber wad. I've shot sporting clays rounds of 25 birds and never wiped the bore.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: sharps4590]
      #384949 - 22/05/24 11:33 AM

Yeah, what these guys all said.

I should add that I can get an ounce of shot well over 1000 fps with dry hard-felt or compressed fibre wads (with some wad-pressure applied), but get crusty fouling with 2F, jury's out on 3F. Commercial lube-saturated fibre wads can't really be compressed without exuding some lube inside the hull, and produce slower MVs (a bit under 1000 fps) in both my Scott and Greener SxS top-lever hammer-guns. ...but no fouling build-up and shoot all day. This is with 7s at the traps btw.

Please appreciate my rank amateur status in Daryl's and 3DM's company, but I guess all real-world info is potentially useful, right?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: Marrakai]
      #384951 - 23/05/24 01:16 AM

As to rifle ctg. size and repeated shots, a .45 3 1/4 loaded with 115gr. 2F in RCBS cases and 122gr. in Bell brass qualifies. In both of these I was using an undersized 460 and 500gr. Smooth slug that after patching was .4505" to .451" in diameter. A 5/16" thick grease cookie of 40% Vaseline, 60% Beeswax allowed 10 consecutive shots without wiping. A dry patch removed all traces of fouling after 10 shots. I do not know how many could be fired without losing accuracy as I only fired 10 in a row, then wiped.
I was unable to find bee brood foundation, so used a disk of wax paper between the powder and a .035" wad of tablet backing or beer case box card stock under the bullet. Powder was compressed 110" before inserting the wax paper disk thin wad and bullet. The bullets were a weak friction hfit in the case with only 1/4" of it in the case.
Tony, your experience in this is quite as vital as any other's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: Marrakai]
      #384953 - 23/05/24 02:26 AM

Quote:

Yeah, what these guys all said.

Please appreciate my rank amateur status in Daryl's and 3DM's company, but I guess all real-world info is potentially useful, right?


I daresay that my experience does not hold a candle to Tony’s or Daryl’s. One might describe mine as “half vast” as opposed to vast.
I just love what I do and am not shy about talking about it once I get wound up
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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LTK
.224 member


Reged: 27/02/24
Posts: 36
Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: 3DogMike]
      #384961 - 23/05/24 11:38 PM

Thank you to all that took the time to respond. Much appreciated.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Shooting Black powder shot shells [Re: LTK]
      #385240 - 12/06/24 03:40 PM

I use card wad+ felt wad + card wad than the only the cup, the front part of a plastic cup in my 12 ga.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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