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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1364
Loc: Alaska
Working up a double rifle load that regulates.
      #384873 - 16/05/24 08:17 AM

Does anyone offer the service of working up a regulating load for double rifles? I've seen mention in old articles that a person was doing it but no names or contact info.

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1010
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: casper50]
      #384878 - 16/05/24 11:58 AM

I presume that you already have Graeme Wright's book "Shooting the British Double Rifle"?

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #384881 - 16/05/24 08:24 PM

Tell me what double rifle you are working with.

Curly

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1364
Loc: Alaska
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: CptCurl]
      #384883 - 17/05/24 01:07 AM

I have two at the moment but first in line is the Wilkenson .577 3" BPE.

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LTK
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Reged: 27/02/24
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Loc: Alberta Canada
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: casper50]
      #384889 - 17/05/24 11:47 AM

Before I say what I have to say, let me be clear, I AM NOT AN EXPERT. I bought my first double rifle a year ago, a Henry .500 BPE. I did a lot of research on loading for this rifle and what I found was several sources that claimed that the barrels were regulated by powder charge. If the shots are going wide, increaseing that powder charge will bring them together. If they are crossing, lowering the powder charge will bring them back together. It was recommended to start on the lighter side (which should make them shoot wide) and increase the charge until they meet. My initial thought was "How the hell does THAT work???". But, I found the same recommendation in several different places. So, I made up several loads of increasing powder charges and found that the first ones shot rather wide (@ 50 yards) and as the powder charge increased, the shots came together, just like I was told. For the record, I am using smokeless in place of black but my understanding is that the same principle applies for black. I can to wrap my head around WHY this is how it is but my initial limited testing seemed to conclude that this may have merit.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39295
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: LTK]
      #384921 - 19/05/24 06:54 PM

Quote:

I did a lot of research on loading for this rifle and what I found was several sources that claimed that the barrels were regulated by powder charge. If the shots are going wide, increaseing that powder charge will bring them together. If they are crossing, lowering the powder charge will bring them back together. It was recommended to start on the lighter side (which should make them shoot wide) and increase the charge until they meet. My initial thought was "How the hell does THAT work???". But, I found the same recommendation in several different places. So, I made up several loads of increasing powder charges and found that the first ones shot rather wide (@ 50 yards) and as the powder charge increased, the shots came together, just like I was told. For the record, I am using smokeless in place of black but my understanding is that the same principle applies for black. I can to wrap my head around WHY this is how it is but my initial limited testing seemed to conclude that this may have merit.




Slower velocity, more time before the bullet exits the barrels so the bullet flies wider under recoil.

For heavy recoiling big bores, a bullet may hit lower as well if velocity is increased. Recoil effect and bullet time in barrel again.

Higher velocity rifles, usually a higher velocity means flatter trajectory so a higher velocity means a higher impact. Big heavy slow bullets , lesser velocity means more time in a barrel under recoil and higher impacts.

A double rifle will have both influences, a side by side, upwards recoil and right and left recoil. During the rifles regulation both are compensated for. I'm guessing an under a and over Dr has most upwards and lesser upwards recoil effects. Less sideways. Theoretically easier to regulate by the maker.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (20/05/24 10:46 PM)


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LRF
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Reged: 28/03/11
Posts: 314
Loc: minnesota ,usa
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: LTK]
      #384922 - 19/05/24 09:22 PM

Quote:

... claimed that the barrels were regulated by powder charge. If the shots are going wide, increasing that powder charge will bring them together. If they are crossing, lowering the powder charge will bring them back together. ...




A question, does time between shots fired from one barrel and then the next, affect the impact of the bullets on target? For example two shots in quick succession or separated by say 10 seconds or more.


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1299
Loc: France / Germany
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: LRF]
      #384923 - 19/05/24 11:50 PM

Assuredly, If you want to test your DR you should theoretically quickly fire one barrel after the other. How far the accuracy loss if waiting is relevant for hunting is another question.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26608
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: grandveneur]
      #384924 - 20/05/24 03:10 AM

My SxS Kodiak was opposite, to a point.
82gr.(3drams) with round ball crossed by 2" at 50 yards and as well the barrels shot 4" different elevation at 50. Increasing to 100gr. They shot into the same hole at 50yds a 1" group.
With 110gr. They shot parallel. With 120gr. they were back to crossing by 2" & shooting at 4" different elevations as well but switched which was up and which was down.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39295
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Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: DarylS]
      #384929 - 20/05/24 10:39 PM

As Daryl indicates, where the barrels may cross is also relevant. If the impacts have already crossed. The left barrel impacts will be to the right and vice versa.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3495
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: NitroX]
      #384935 - 21/05/24 09:15 AM

A point to stress here is the need for a chronograph in developing loads for double rifles, particularly vintage Brit examples.

The normal pressure signs for modern bolt rifles are not obvious at the lower limits of older break-open actions. To continue adding powder to bring the barrel-groups together with no attention to pressure is folly, and the only surrogate for pressure available to the layperson is existing published velocity.

So working up to achieve regulation (with medium/slow to slow powder) is fine, provided that the published velocity is not exceeded. If that velocity is reached before regulation is achieved, then change powder or projectile. It is potentially dangerous to continue increasing the powder charge.

If regulation simply can't be achieved after all load possibilities are tried, then the barrels need re-regulation. If this step is taken, at least the rifle can be regulated for a sensible pet load with consistently available components.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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transvaal
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Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 131
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: Marrakai]
      #384939 - 22/05/24 01:02 AM

You need to pay attention to what Marrakai advises.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26608
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Re: Working up a double rifle load that regulates. [Re: transvaal]
      #384943 - 22/05/24 01:37 AM

I just took for granted no one would exceed what is maximum for their rifle but do acknowledge feeble knowledge on working up loads using smokelesd powder in black powder rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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