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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2443
Loc: Melbourne Australia
A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR
      #383200 - 07/03/24 11:03 AM


https://www.westleyrichards.com/theexplora/a-remarkable-westley-richards-sidelock-375-buffalo-rifle/


Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #383201 - 07/03/24 12:18 PM

I really want to know what John thinks about this gun.

Nitro???

(I have my opinions.)

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
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Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: 9.3x57]
      #383202 - 07/03/24 12:21 PM

Appears to be regulated for the TUG RWS ammo, but what weight?
regulated for only soft points as pictured?
It looks a bit "blocky" to me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: DarylS]
      #383208 - 07/03/24 03:41 PM

Quote:

Appears to be regulated for the TUG RWS ammo, but what weight?
regulated for only soft points as pictured?
It looks a bit "blocky" to me.




301 grs as expected. If it's the TUG, more likely the modern version of it, it should be suitable for buffalo.

Being in the .375 Belted Magnum cartridge factory loaded ammunition will be able to be used in it. Four rounds in a "watch face" at 50 yards with the open V sights sounds very accurate.

RWS ammunition seems very accurate. My .375 H & H Magnum Whitworth M98 shot three shots of 300 gr RWS KS into a single hole at 100 yards at a very good velocity. Maybe 2900 fps out of my shortish barrel. Would be an excellent plains game long range cartridge if the KS was so fragile. Useless as a buffalo bullet. But very accurate and very fast.

It looks a little blocky to me as well. Could be the angles. The deep engraving adds to that look.

I like the buffalo and lion engraving. The grip cap skull. I like the buffalo head emerging from the scroll engraving.

As often is the case this Westley Richards double rifle is elaborate, deep well executed engraving, heavily engraved wood. Too elaborate for me, but I'm not the customer. As this rifle is made to order, I'm sure the customer will love it.

The 25" barrel is perfect for the .37t cartridge to make the most out of it.

The weight of the rifle sounds handy while should allow handling the .375s recoil.

A magnum versus flanged? I've thought about whether a magnum belted chambered rifle would be acceptable? The flanged cartridge is reportedly and logically much better for reliable extraction in a break open rifle. The magnum cartridge has a big advantage of loaded factory ammunition, and easily obtainable many places in the world.

If the right .375 Magnum double rifle at a price I could afford at the time crossed my path, I'd certainly buy it instead of my preferred flanged cartridge.

A double rifle requires ammunition which regulates in it though. A .375 requires a 300 gr RNSP and a 300 gr FMJ load to regulate. Some might choose the Hydro today, a compromise between the two types. Any factory ammunition needs to regulate and perform on big game.

This rifle has express sights only. I'd go the same on a .450 or larger. But perhaps allow a dot point sight to be fitted. On a .375 to a .416, on a bespoke rifle I'd absolutely order a 1-4 to 6x scope be fitted and the rifle regulated for it. Hopefully the DR with the scope removed would shoot well enough with express sights at close enough ranges. One wouldn't know until it is tried. A 1x scope is pretty effective. But at end of barrel grass, jungle, scrub, any scope would Bevan impediment.

In a DR, it's by its nature a take down rifle par excellence, and cased or invaded a smaller package for unobtrusive travelling

That's my comments.

But no doubt this bespoke Westley Richards rifle will delight it's owner.

Obviously cape buffalo will be in its future.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: DarylS]
      #383210 - 07/03/24 03:50 PM

Quote:


It looks a bit "blocky" to me.




I agree.
The stock work looks especially exaggerated.
The drop points must be 4mm high and the wood looks high around the top strap in a style normally seen on falling block rifles.
Just looks off IMO.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: Huvius]
      #383214 - 07/03/24 07:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:


It looks a bit "blocky" to me.




I agree.
The stock work looks especially exaggerated.
The drop points must be 4mm high and the wood looks high around the top strap in a style normally seen on falling block rifles.
Just looks off IMO.




I wonder if the action is designed for larger cartridge?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: NitroX]
      #383222 - 08/03/24 04:06 AM

In looking more closely, the wood is flush with the top strap - light fooling me in one photo.
I suppose a sidelock has to have more width in the head of the stock than a typical boxlock simply to keep the locks parallel to each other.
Superb workmanship for sure but I find many of the exhibition grade Westleys are over the top.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
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Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: NitroX]
      #383225 - 08/03/24 06:31 AM

Quote:


RWS ammunition seems very accurate. My .375 H & H Magnum Whitworth M98 shot three shots of 300 gr RWS KS into a single hole at 100 yards at a very good velocity. Maybe 2900 fps out of my shortish barrel.




Did you mean 2,500fps or perhaps the most, 2.600fps?
I think 2,560fps is the most used figure for factory 300gr.
& 2,700fps for 270's.

Back in 1912, the 300's ran 2,400fps and 270's were at 2,600fps.

I chronographed a ZKK 602 with 300gr. Sil.Tip at 2,484fps
from it's 25" bl. back in about 2016.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4198
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: DarylS]
      #383226 - 08/03/24 07:14 AM

Using RWS factory ammo, which is very consistent for starters & if reloading the brass (not on a hunt mind you) it will last for years! It's normally loaded to top velocities so it will be a hot load, especially for a double!
They will be still honking along when they hit whatever they intend to hit, those TUG's have a fantastic ballistic co-efficient so they can really reach out if needed!


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: 93x64mm]
      #383230 - 08/03/24 09:36 AM

Quote:

I find many of the exhibition grade Westleys are over the top



While I totally agree with your assessment there Huvius, I rejoice in the fact that WR are still prepared to do this,
and that in these relatively uncertain times there are still firearm aficionados out there prepared to pay more for a high-end sporter than I paid for my house.
Long may it continue!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: Marrakai]
      #383235 - 08/03/24 03:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:


RWS ammunition seems very accurate. My .375 H & H Magnum Whitworth M98 shot three shots of 300 gr RWS KS into a single hole at 100 yards at a very good velocity. Maybe 2900 fps out of my shortish barrel.




Did you mean 2,500fps or perhaps the most, 2.600fps?
I think 2,560fps is the most used figure for factory 300gr.
& 2,700fps for 270's.

Back in 1912, the 300's ran 2,400fps and 270's were at 2,600fps.




No, certainly faster than 2,600 fps. Maybe 2,800 fps? I forget exactly. I was surprised at both the accuracy and velocity. Pity the Conepoints are such a soft fragile bullet.

My normal Woodleigh Weldcores are mild, only doing 2,350 fps. I never went for velocity and was satisfied with an accurate load.

Quote:

93x64: TUG's have a fantastic ballistic co-efficient




Are you sure? They're rather round nosed in shape.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: Marrakai]
      #383236 - 08/03/24 03:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I find many of the exhibition grade Westleys are over the top



While I totally agree with your assessment there Huvius, I rejoice in the fact that WR are still prepared to do this,
and that in these relatively uncertain times there are still firearm aficionados out there prepared to pay more for a high-end sporter than I paid for my house.
Long may it continue!




Spot on. They're doing a good job of keeping quality British gunmaking alive and well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: NitroX]
      #383244 - 09/03/24 12:00 AM

Thanks very much for your comments John.

Great write-up.

I also am so glad to see this type of craftsmanship still being carried on. I will never own such a gun, but I am happy to know there is a current market driving the skills and traditions of yesteryear.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4198
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: 9.3x57]
      #383258 - 09/03/24 10:46 AM

John
this is the RWS info
https://rws-ammunition.com/en/products/centerfire-rifle-cartridges/rws-375-hh-mag-uni-classic-19-5g
Velocity 2560fps at the muzzle for the 300gn TUGS.
With a zero of 100m it drops 15,5cm or just over 6"at 200m - that's pretty damn flat for a big slug
BC = .334

I've compared the 9.3x64
its BC = .465 for the 293gn TUG
https://rws-ammunition.com/en/products/c...94cb81021e61c72

Both of these loads have been lowered somewhat compared to an old RWS catalogue I have.
My original RWS loads were chronographed at 2640fps for my 26" barrel so these new loads are much more conservative
The BC for the 375H&H seems far lower than the 9.3 which doesn't seem right are they are virtually identical cartridges ballistically.

Sorry to Hijack this thread, just trying to point out that the owner of this magnificent rifle has obviously designed it for plains game, even buffalo if need be!
great choice in ammo to regulate it with!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: A Magnifent 375 Double Rifle by WR [Re: 93x64mm]
      #383267 - 09/03/24 04:05 PM

Firstly I don't remember exactly the speed of the 300 gr .375 RSW KS or cone point. I remember being surprised. The range of 2400 to 2600 fps is normal in my mind. And this was significantly faster. And a three shot one hole group.

The RWS bullet types are often strange by appearance, bumps, ridges etc. The KS or cone point is a cone. The old TIG and TUG and H mantel have rounded appearances. Not necessary round nose but definety not a Spitzer.

Seem to be good ammunition but expensive and hard and sporadic to get in Australia.

Unfortunately as with any changes in marketing staff, they had to rename, relabel everything. Change the tested tried and true names. No idea what they title stuff now.

***

On topic at one time Kynoch ammunition would have been used. Woodleigh Weldcores and FMJ.

Maybe the Woodleigh manufacturing interruption has had a big effect?

Does Kynoch even make ammunition still?

I'd prefer Kynoch as the ammunition if I was the client. As if hope to duplicate the Kynoch ammunition with hand loads.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (09/03/24 04:10 PM)


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