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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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9.3x57
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: 3DogMike]
      #381246 - 15/12/23 04:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes- these were interesting. Can't help but wonder how they would fly.
https://www.martysarms.com/cdn/shop/products/x-shot_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1669068752


I'd bet those X type make a most appealing whistling sound in flight.
- Mike



To you both...

That's for sure!!!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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lancaster
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: 9.3x57]
      #381271 - 16/12/23 06:22 AM

irrc, Kynoch had a similar looking bullet before the war, called "lethal ball"? could be this was hollow made from two half pressed together.

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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grandveneur
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: lancaster]
      #381275 - 16/12/23 07:12 AM

Thats right, called "lethal" bullet but I mean loaded by Eley, production discontinued 1957. Kynoch has also a "destructor" bullet.

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DarylS
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: grandveneur]
      #381280 - 16/12/23 09:30 AM

These are quite solid, as the sprue cuttoff can be seen on one of the "bands". That is a good location for the sprue as a swipe with a file and it's perfectly symmetrical.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #381281 - 16/12/23 09:48 AM

Daryl, you mentioned Flush Cutters before, they are a type side cutter where one outside face is completely flat with a very sharp edge, they leave nothing behind when cutting. We use them for cable ties and they are great if you do plastic models etc. If using them with bullet molding they will leave almost nothing behind if anything.

Matt.

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There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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lancaster
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #381296 - 16/12/23 11:26 PM

here they are, 1926 ICI Eley Kynoch catalog





the lethal bullet looks similar, my guess the rings around were a little bit oversize to give a tight fit in the barrel than also allow to pass the choke bore. probably with the side effekt of lead in the barrel build up quickly.looks like the bullet was hollow with some cross struts inside to make it lighter than a common round ball so I think two half were pressed together.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #381298 - 17/12/23 12:17 AM

Quote:

Daryl, you mentioned Flush Cutters before, they are a type side cutter where one outside face is completely flat with a very sharp edge, they leave nothing behind when cutting. We use them for cable ties and they are great if you do plastic models etc. If using them with bullet molding they will leave almost nothing behind if anything.

Matt.



Correct.

I use the ones Wade recommends when casting buckshot from "Do-It" sinker molds. They get right up to the pellet unlike side cutters. I did break a set once tho they are so cheap, no big deal.

BTW those "Do-It" molds are gang molds one side making a .31" cal pellet and the other a .368"/9.3mm pellet. Using Wade's methods I get excellent dense patterns. Early on I had one load of his pressure tested and it ran ~500 psi high. Since then he's backed off. Loading shotgun ammo w/o a known pressure combination is "At Your Own Risk" as switching combinations can stack tolerance and pressures but we have access to pressure testing so that helps.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (17/12/23 01:00 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: 9.3x57]
      #381315 - 17/12/23 05:37 AM

Could be the banded cast ball is to make it safe in all chokes, just like the raised ribs on Brenneke and Foster slugs.

I take a grinder to the side cutters jaws, so they cut closer than stock side cutters. I don't call them flush cutters- someone else coined that word.
The ground side cutters cut flush with a flat surface and are also better for cutting (my) toe nails. LOL

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #381316 - 17/12/23 05:54 AM

Quote:

Could be the banded cast ball is to make it safe in all chokes, just like the raised ribs on Brenneke and Foster slugs.

I take a grinder to the side cutters jaws, so they cut closer than stock side cutters. I don't call them flush cutters- someone else coined that word.
The ground side cutters cut flush with a flat surface and are also better for cutting (my) toe nails. LOL



That makes send. I seems I remember reading that the ribs in theory stop veering caused by one directional spinning as the ball leaves the barrel. Whether it works or not, no idea.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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DarylS
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: 9.3x57]
      #381321 - 17/12/23 10:35 AM

Taofladermause has marked the bases of "rifled" slugs and with high speed cameras allowing slow motion viewing, show that the slugs do spin, but it is likely not due to the grooves outside the barrel, but when inside. As well, the spin might also be due to the boring/reaming and polishing of the barrels, leaving a memory if direction turning of the laps, etc.
Due to the shock wave form super sonic flight, there really isn't much 'air' in hard contact with the grooves in the first place. AS well normal rifled slugs are almost smooth sided by the time they leave the muzzle. Those I have recovered from snow were, even from a cylinder bored gun.
Due to the softness of the slugs (virtually pure lead) the slugging up(obturation)of the slug irons out the grooves during it's passage out the tube.
As well, there is a solid band at the bottom of the slug that runs all the way around the slug, which would prevent directional air passage from the grooves off the base. This area of the slug, is usually slugged up completely and smooth.
The only real grooves left are at the nose and running back, maybe 1/3rd of the slug's length.
Like most rifles, there are loads (& slugs) they prefer over others.
The harder they are driven, the smoother they should be. A 3" load pushing a 1 ounce slug out at 1,750fps, is much more likely to be distorted in this manner, than one of the shorty shelled slugs, however with those initial obturation in the oversized front 1/2 of the chamber, then hitting the forcing cone, would have an ironing effect on them as well, even though they are running only 1,200fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: DarylS]
      #381323 - 17/12/23 01:04 PM

Daryl, flush cutter is the actual official name of that type of side cutter.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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DarylS
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Re: 12-bore shotguns, paradox, Explora, rifles [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #381337 - 18/12/23 04:24 AM

OK - first I've heard the name. Makes sense, though. I guess we are converting side cutters into flush cutters.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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