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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

.577 2 3/4" NE vs 3"
#378513 - 09/08/23 01:44 AM

Looking at past 12-bore shotgun conversions and also double rifle builds.

The usual cartridge chambering is the .577 3" NE. Shooting a 750 gr projectile. Up to 2000 fps.

The .577 2 3/4" NE, sometimes also called a Light Nitro, usually is loaded with a 650 gr projectile. 1850 fps.

Historically what was the 2 3/4 inch cartridge used for? I believe it started as a black powder express cartridge.

Who used it historically? Did anyone write about using the LNE or the BPE? On what?

Users of .577 cartridges? Would you say the 2 3/4" is good for elephant? I know members here have used it many times on water buffalo. So no doubt cape buffalo is in its capability. How would it fare as a DG back up DR?

If getting a shotgun conversion,met a Greener Empire shotgun, would you choose the LNE 2 3/4ers, or a full 3 inch? Why? Safety?

If getting a DR made from scratch no doubt one would use a full 3 inch.

Please discuss these questions or other relevant points of discussion.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (09/08/23 02:18 AM)

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: NitroX]
#378521 - 09/08/23 05:37 PM

Sir Samuel Baker.

Invented the .577x2¾ and convinced H&H to build appropriate rifles for it.

Wrote extensively about hunting large and medium game with it on several continents.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: Marrakai]
#378524 - 09/08/23 06:56 PM

Quote:

Sir Samuel Baker.

Invented the .577x2¾ and convinced H&H to build appropriate rifles for it.

Wrote extensively about hunting large and medium game with it on several continents.

A ha, our doppelganger.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: NitroX]
#378530 - 09/08/23 11:50 PM

Years ago Jack Lott wrote in Gun Digest about using a Jones action underlever hammer double rifle in .577 2 3/4" on cape buffalo in Africa, iirc.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: kuduae]
#378603 - 12/08/23 01:06 PM

Quote:

Years ago Jack Lott wrote in Gun Digest about using a Jones action underlever hammer double rifle in .577 2 3/4" on cape buffalo in Africa, iirc.

I have some of those 1970's Gun Digest and remember his essay.
I will have to look for that and if I find it I will scan and email to Nitro John so he can post it here.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Nemo
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Reged: 16/06/23
Posts: 25
Loc: Wisconsin

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: kuduae]
#378653 - 14/08/23 02:08 PM

The article I have from Jack Lott about his H&H back action Jones underlever refers to the 577 3" version.
It's in the 1985 Gun Digest and was reprinted in "Gun Digest's Classic Sporting Rifles" 2012 edited by Terry Wieland.
The article is titled "Make mine a sidehammer rifle".
Classic Sporting Rifles has a whole section on double rifles with another article from Jack
"The double rifle it's care and feeding" which has a boatload of load data (Gun Digest 1979).
Also, from 1967, Elmer Keith's "The deadly dependable double" and several other articles.
There is also another whole section on single shots.
If you can find a copy of this collection it's well worthwhile.

Unfortunately I do not have a scanner so hopefully someone else can post some of this material.

--------------------
Nemo -- Everything 44

Edited by Nemo (14/08/23 02:11 PM)

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A10ACN
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Reged: 30/01/05
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Loc: USA

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: Nemo]
#379801 - 03/10/23 05:45 AM

I’ve got a Holland 577 2 3/4”NE that was sent back and opened to 3” 577/650. It was noted in the ledger that re-regulating was not required. With 25” barrels it places Woodleigh 650s running 1805fps sideXside. I always thought it was luck or trickery, but I found that original 2 3/4” 650gr Nitro and 3” 650gr Nitro loadings were the same. I used it on a Cape Buff 2yrs ago to test penetration, but no definitive results other than it will stop a charge and the Woodleighs hold together.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: Nemo]
#379803 - 03/10/23 08:02 AM

The Lott Article had a picture of Jack with his double rifle and the buffalo on the first page. Seems to me, he was holding a ctg. in his left hand. The rifle was leaning up against the buff. IIRC

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
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Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: Nemo]
#379810 - 03/10/23 03:22 PM

Quote:

The article I have from Jack Lott about his H&H back action Jones underlever refers to the 577 3" version.
It's in the 1985 Gun Digest and was reprinted in "Gun Digest's Classic Sporting Rifles" 2012 edited by Terry Wieland.
The article is titled "Make mine a sidehammer rifle".
Classic Sporting Rifles has a whole section on double rifles with another article from Jack
"The double rifle it's care and feeding" which has a boatload of load data (Gun Digest 1979).
Also, from 1967, Elmer Keith's "The deadly dependable double" and several other articles.
There is also another whole section on single shots.
If you can find a copy of this collection it's well worthwhile.

Unfortunately I do not have a scanner so hopefully someone else can post some of this material.

Copies of those articles would be nice to add to NzE.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: NitroX]
#379824 - 04/10/23 03:25 PM

This subject got me to thinking this evening,

For 15-20 years I have owned a Greener Shotgun that was built into to a 577 2-3/4" Nitro Express. I haven't done much with the gun as I couldn't come up with a easy way to trim 3 inch cases to 2-3/4 inches. Every attempt I made was not good.

Tonight as a reulst of this post, I was brain storming an idea to make a file trim die. I was looking at the reamer I had made by JGS Reamers from a chamber cast while I was in Afghanistan, It did not look right. Got my calipers out and measured the reamer and it is 3 inch not 2-3/4".

So I grabbed a 3 inch case and dropped it in the chamber of the Greener, it went right in. I made up a dummy round with 650 gr. Woodleigh bullet and it chambered. All this time I have been trying to make 2-3/4" cases and the gun is a 3 inch chamber. Even better with the 650 bullet in the 3 inch case this cartridge turned the corner and chambered, always a problem with big cartridges in Martini style actions.

Helluva Gunsmith I use to be.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (04/10/23 03:27 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: DoubleD]
#379832 - 05/10/23 02:35 AM

Good "find", DD.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: DarylS]
#379835 - 05/10/23 03:12 AM

DD,

All is well that ends well.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: .577 2 3/4" NE vs 3" [Re: DoubleD]
#379870 - 05/10/23 10:49 PM

Quote:

This subject got me to thinking this evening,

For 15-20 years I have owned a Greener Shotgun that was built into to a 577 2-3/4" Nitro Express. I haven't done much with the gun as I couldn't come up with a easy way to trim 3 inch cases to 2-3/4 inches. Every attempt I made was not good.

Tonight as a reulst of this post, I was brain storming an idea to make a file trim die. I was looking at the reamer I had made by JGS Reamers from a chamber cast while I was in Afghanistan, It did not look right. Got my calipers out and measured the reamer and it is 3 inch not 2-3/4".

So I grabbed a 3 inch case and dropped it in the chamber of the Greener, it went right in. I made up a dummy round with 650 gr. Woodleigh bullet and it chambered. All this time I have been trying to make 2-3/4" cases and the gun is a 3 inch chamber. Even better with the 650 bullet in the 3 inch case this cartridge turned the corner and chambered, always a problem with big cartridges in Martini style actions.

Helluva Gunsmith I use to be.

Still got it DD!
Sometimes the penny drops & things just fall into place!
Now for a range test to see what your old greener will do!

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