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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Shotgun for deer question
      #37806 - 19/09/05 01:44 PM

This is an academic question since I live in a shotgun for deer only state. I have a 1956 Browning A-5 shotgun for which I have been told by a dealer just a mile away from my place that a rifled barrel could be bought. I have hunted pigs for many years with smoothbore shotguns in India with ball without any fuss or toruble. Would it help to buy a rifled barrel for my A-5 or should I use it with it's current smoothbore barrel and slugs later this year?

My friend, business partner and hunting buddy on whose land I shall be hunting uses a Marlin rifled barrel bolt action shotgun which he really loves. I could borrow his gun but would like to use my "new" gun because it is too beautiful to leave unused.

Thanks for the advice in advance and best wishes,

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #39345 - 20/10/05 01:48 PM

Mehul-

There are some remarkably accurate factory slugs loads out there which are designed specifically to run in smooth bore guns.

I'd take a look at the ammo end of the proposition first and see how well you can shoot your smooth bore gun with off the shelf ammo first.
That and I'd start with the cheaper Winchester etc stuff before I spent the bigger bucks on Brenneke slugs.
You may be in for a pleasant suprise.

My Mossberg 500 pump gun puts everything in a group smaller than my open hand at fifty yards. That's with the cheap Winchester two and a half inch rifled slugs. I never even tried the more expensive stuff. That's dead deer accurate within woods/iron sight range and better than good enough for me.


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #39368 - 20/10/05 08:55 PM

Mehul,

There is an article in the current issue of American Hunter about some new slugs just coming to market. I read it with only mild interest as I have never hunted with shotgun slugs, but only with rifles.

Good luck,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #39398 - 21/10/05 06:36 AM

As for fodder for the 12 bore, we've found that round balls, held centre using the base cups from spent trap shells (pickups) worked better than any of the comercial slugs on the market, from our smoothbores, whether double or single. Fopr ful choked guns, my firends worked up loads with patched balls in the case, such that the patched ball could be pushed out through the choke. They used the .684" balls I aprovided. In my cylinder bore, I used .715 and .725 balls, held by the base cup from shotshell plastic wads. The .725's were more accurate and of course, hit slightly harder. The penetration is incredible compared to the 1 or 1 1/4oz slugs available.
: Groups in the 3" to 4" range at 50yds. were comon, yet the penetration of such loads far superior to any soft lead slug. We used WW metal with a brinel of 12 to 13. With a .725" ball in a tight .727" bore, accuracy with 1,500fps was very reasonable from a double 12 shortened to 26". SR7625 seemed to give the best results, and had much les recoil than the BP loads required to get the barels shooting together.
: BTW- the 1,500fps load duplicates the era 1890 HEAVY load for 12 bore elephant double guns, so should handle a deer quite handily.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
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Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: tinker]
      #39427 - 21/10/05 02:58 PM

Tinker,

I took the easy way out this year and got myself an ML permit. My partner has several muzzleloaders and I am going to get my first deer in the US with one of his rifles this December. I shall take your advice and try several brands of rifled slugs too. The gun is too beautiful for me not to shoot.

Thanks for the suggestions!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: CptCurl]
      #39428 - 21/10/05 02:59 PM

CptCurl,

The only gun magazine that I subscribe to is Rifle though I have many friends who are dedicated NRA members. Thanks for the tip about American Hunter. I shall find a copy as soon as I can.



--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: DarylS]
      #39429 - 21/10/05 03:05 PM

Daryl S,

I never took "ball" ammunition sold in India apart to find out what kind of ball there was in them, but at ranges less than 30 yards it works very well on pigs. Thanks for your suggestion. I should learn to reload and try to load for deer next year.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Yogi000
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #51222 - 03/03/06 03:06 AM

This is an interesting thread. I also live on shotgun only country and since I love double guns, I just sent my money off for an Italian made 12 gauge side by side SLUG double shotgun.... It has 3 inch chambers, has a great looking stock complete with cheek plate. It has an Anson and Deeley BoxLock. Ejectors. Ramped front site and express style rear folding site. 24 inch barrels... Overall, the gun appears to be exactly what I want: A double sxs shotgun made like a double rifle! Something that has BIG BORE knockdown power, with the elegance of a well made double barrel side by side.

But, I do not handload... YET.

I have been trying to find off the shelf ROUND slugs and yes in the bigger diameter as stated above as being the best, but haven't found any.

My double barrel should arrive by tuesday (March 7th). I would really like to try out some round, bigger diameter balls rather than those small diameter finned slugs primarily designed for rifled pump and auto shotguns. I also am planning on installing two in-stock recoil reducers so that I can handle the bigger loads needed for the bigger ball slugs.

By the way, I went this route of the double slug gun because I find them far more pleasing to look at, and I really like how they carry. And shoot. They are so much more fun to shoot! I just have no interest in my pumps or auto loaders, anymore.

I intend to make this gun into my very own American BIG FIVE gun: deer, bear, boar, moose, and cougar! (hahahah)

I also would hope to take this with me on any trips to Africa, India, South America, etc where I would potentially use it on dangerous game.

Are there any other double barrel SLUG shotgun hunters out there? Any others like me who want to hunt dangerous and/or BIGGER game with a double slugger???

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Marrakai
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Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: Yogi000]
      #51339 - 04/03/06 12:15 AM

Yogi:
I recently surfed the Rottweil/ Brenneke web-pages for another thread, and found the ballistics for the "Original Brenneke 12-bore 3-inch Magnum" (half-way down this page) to be astounding!

How does a 1 3/8 ounce slug at 1500 fps for 3000 ftlbs ME sound?!

BIG BORE knockdown power indeed!

Forget about those piddly round balls, mate.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Yogi000
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Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: Marrakai]
      #51389 - 04/03/06 07:47 AM

Yupper. I happened to find the Brenneke site yesterday and ordered about 100 of those 1500 fps 1 and 1/8 oz slugs last night! Yes that does seem to compute to a ton and a half of ME. Is that relevant to the TAYLOR knockdown tables??? Did Taylor ever test SLUGS or just the rifled bullets? I'd like to see where those Brenneke 1 and 1/8 OZ slugs would compare to let's say a .375 Holland & Holland.

And, I would think with the penetration data being as good as they claim, this double barrel slug gun would be an excellent tool for dangerous game or for anything I might come across in North America.

Anyone know of tables comparing big slugs to big bore rifle bullets?

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DarylS
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Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: Yogi000]
      #51396 - 04/03/06 08:29 AM

Make certain you check your local game regulations. Here, it is legal only to shoot deer, pigs, bear and cougar with smoothbores. There is a rifle-only restriction on Moose and Elk. Rifled shotguns are classed as shotguns and not allowed either, evne though there are techincally rifles. It would be good fodder for a court case if one was prepared.
: Along with the open Express-type sights on my double, I installed a 2.5X to 8X rifle scope for load testing. Due to heat mirage off the barrels, it is difficult to use low mounted irons for testing purposes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (04/03/06 08:30 AM)

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: Yogi000]
      #51460 - 04/03/06 08:39 PM

Yogi:
Taylor's Knock-out Factor is great fun to calculate for comparison purposes, but you should keep in mind that the values are meaningless unless firing steel-jacketed solids into the heads of elephants.



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Yogi000
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: Marrakai]
      #52357 - 14/03/06 04:59 AM

Indeed, your point is well taken. I just received a manual from Ballistic Products Inc on all the various slugs and loading info. There are several dangerous game slugs that appear to be quite impressive. I don't know how they will compare to bullets but I hear you and hope to leanr more and actually get field results from this dangerous game gun and slug effort I am embarking upon.

Thanks for all the good input so far.

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Yogi000
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Loc: New York, USA
Re: Shotgun for deer question [Re: Yogi000]
      #53225 - 24/03/06 11:36 AM

Mehulk---What ranges will you be shooting at?

The old adage is with a smoothbore you'll be 100 yards or less, the rifled barrels with modern and appropriate and tested slugs (and a scope) could get 150 yards or more.

I'd stay with the smoothbore, but then I'm a smoothbore guy.

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