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CJF
.333 member

Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 363
Loc: United States

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CptCurl]
#393070 - 22/08/25 04:34 AM

Curly,

Based on your post I rummaged through my supplies and found a box of 300gr .510" LRN bullets from Montana Precision Swaging. These have lubed grease grooves but no gas check. They did poorly in my Dickson, but I tried them in the Woodward and was happily surprised by a tight group. Velocity was high at 1930fps. Group was also high 3.5" above POA. I'm burying the bead in the notch and everything I shot yesterday from 4 different double rifles was high at 30yds, except for a little 22 Hornet martini by Greener.

Chris

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CJF
.333 member

Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 363
Loc: United States

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CJF]
#393076 - 22/08/25 08:25 AM

Question for the group about patches. I've been using them for a while now and can produce regular results, in terms of appearance, but I don't know if they are performing properly. What condition should patches be after firing? Fragments or larger pieces? At my last range session I went looking for what remained after firing with 4198, kapok, no wads. I found bits of the patch attached to kapok fiber. Nothing that looked like 100% of the patch, but at least some larger pieces.

Here are the before shots:

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CJF
.333 member

Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 363
Loc: United States

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CJF]
#393077 - 22/08/25 08:33 AM

And for what it's worth, the range I belong to is mostly used by folks who don't police up their brass. Which is why I usually come home with a gallon ziplock full of 9x19, 223, 300BO and 45ACP brass, which I'll clean and de-prime and eventually use.

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85lc
.400 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1226
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CJF]
#393079 - 22/08/25 01:33 PM

Chris,

The patches should be fragmented and within 5 - 10 yds or so of your firing position.

What I understand from Charlie Dell and some others is that the patch actually gets scores by the rifling and falls off the bullet as the bullet leaves the muzzle.

Others may have different experiences and that would be good to discuss.

--------------------
RB

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CJF
.333 member

Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 363
Loc: United States

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: 85lc]
#393088 - 23/08/25 12:10 AM

Thanks Roy. That seems to be what's happening here, at least in terms of distance from the muzzle. I don't think I saw a single patch that was still full width measured from base of bullet to nose. The bits I was seeing appear to be the portion of the patch inside the case and wrapping under the bullet.

Do you use wads directly under the bullet when firing NfB loads with filler (foam, Dacron or kapok?)

Chris

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3624
Loc: Colorado

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CJF]
#393089 - 23/08/25 12:32 AM

I’ve heard that the patch should look like ribbons - much like the paper “grass” you see in Easter baskets etc.
Some of my rifles produce fragments like that which I take as confirmation that I’m doing at least one thing right!

I suppose that the type of rifling has much to do with how your patch will look as well.
I used to think that the rifling cut the patch but in using Metford rifled guns which also result in ribbon like patch fragments, I think what is really happening is the same as when you fold a piece of paper and then tear it along the fold.
The rifling is impressing and maybe thinning the paper so when it exits the muzzle, air flow tears the paper along the impression making ribbons that are more or less a match to the rifling.

Maybe some day I’ll get to the range with rifles which have different forms of rifling to do a comparison.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5331
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CJF]
#393090 - 23/08/25 12:56 AM

Quote:

Curly,

Based on your post I rummaged through my supplies and found a box of 300gr .510" LRN bullets from Montana Precision Swaging. These have lubed grease grooves but no gas check. They did poorly in my Dickson, but I tried them in the Woodward and was happily surprised by a tight group. Velocity was high at 1930fps. Group was also high 3.5" above POA. I'm burying the bead in the notch and everything I shot yesterday from 4 different double rifles was high at 30yds, except for a little 22 Hornet martini by Greener.

Chris

Chris,

1930 is really fast. Maybe slow them a bit?

On the other hand, that bullet is on the light side too.

Curly

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27795
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CptCurl]
#393092 - 23/08/25 01:48 AM

The fired patch condition will usually coincide with the bores condition and rifling. Is it: Deep? Sharp corners? Shallow? Rounded lands? Smooth bore? Small or large pits?
Everything on the condition effects the end result of what the paper looks like.
I've ended up with things strips as well as pieces. All have shot well.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CJF
.333 member

Reged: 07/08/17
Posts: 363
Loc: United States

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: DarylS]
#393095 - 23/08/25 02:45 AM

Thanks all. The Woodward has very good bores, shallow rifling. Not sure about the edge on the lands. Will need to reexamine

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85lc
.400 member

Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 1226
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: .500 BPE by James Woodward & Sons [Re: CJF]
#393098 - 23/08/25 04:25 AM

Chris,

On the subject of wad, I use a very light weight foam wad that is the length of the air column between the powder and base of the bullet. The "wad" that I use are biodegradable and come out almost like snow.

I use this wad to hold the powder in place.

The full length insures that the was doesn't move independent of the bullet. As the wad base starts moving as the powder burns, the front starts crushing as it pushes the bulet forward. That way, the powder is kept at the priomer and the wad doesn't act as a projectile, damafing the barrel when it hits the base of the bullet.

Daryl had a good comment concerning how the type of rifling impacts what happens to patches. I did shoot patched bullets through one of my Lancasters. What I remember is that the patches I found were highly damaged but not cut in stripes as convention rifling would do.

--------------------
RB

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