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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Bowhunting + Bows, Spears & Knives

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lancaster
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britisch navy forester
#374850 - 05/03/23 10:55 PM

we have an old joke here about the "mounted mountain-navy" that came back to my mind when seeing this "Hirschfänger" or hunting dagger for britisch navy forester in auction https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8442259/

don't know if they were realy forester or more specialist who visits the forest and looking for suitable wood and buy it for the britisch navy. funny none the less the navy had forester

and yes, I know the forest service of the german luftwaffe but navy is better

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#375537 - 25/03/23 09:40 PM

see just now the danish adapt the german word for this kind of short sword/long dagger as "Hirschfanger" without the common umlaut. the danish language have different umlaut not the same like the german.

https://www.lauritz.com/en/auction/dansk...skede/i6361170/

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#375559 - 26/03/23 07:30 AM

I don't know about 'short sword' bit Lancaster - fair length of blade there, it'd give the old Romans a fair scare with one of those!

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: 93x64mm]
#375567 - 26/03/23 08:04 AM

well, length of this things is not exactly what you would call a sword. the old roman gladius which was much shorter than a mediaeval knights sword is called in german "Kurzschwert" - short sword with the blade being 50 -58 cm long. thats more or less the lenght of a real Hirschfänger.

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NitroX
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#375585 - 26/03/23 04:14 PM

Definitely short sword length.

From a naval point of view if a long knife is not purely ceremonial, a shorter than sword length might be handier in narrow passageways.

Lancaster, do German hunters sometimes still use them to despatch wounded game?

A thrust to the heart?

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: NitroX]
#375597 - 26/03/23 09:11 PM

I think very few today, modern guns and ammo is so powerful most time the game is allready dead when you find it and otherwise you get two handguns on your hunting licence so a pistol / revolver is used many time times to kill wounded game finally.

modern times modern blades, today you get everything from everywhere

https://www.messerworld.de/outdoormesser/jagdmesser?p=6

sometimes still called Hirschfänger https://www.messerworld.de/muela/hirschfaenger-ii-bw-24s.html

but short for a real Hirschfänger

hunter with a pack of hounds specialised on wild boar will use the blade sometimes when there is now chance to shoot into the bundle of hounds and a wildboar but they prefer big knives with stronger blades like this https://messervertrieb-rottner.de/produkte/hubertus-hunter/

the traditional everyday knife of a german hunter is the Jagdnicker

something like this https://messervertrieb-rottner.de/produkte/hubertus-jagdnicker/

I prefer a multitool pocket knife and many other too

the Hirschfänger survive as a jubilee present https://www.vereinsbedarf-deitert.de/hirschfaenger-fuer-schuetzen-made-in-solingen/ and as part of the traditional shooter uniform

will look to france, the old style parforce hunt on red deer is still legal there so it may happen

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#375647 - 28/03/23 05:30 AM

I make a search about the chasse à courre france, the hunt par force which survive in france maybe only in this original style. was not able to find out what kind of weapon they use to kill the game.
its probably the most rough, brutal and bloddy hunt on this planet and the man who do it are maybe the most passionate

the hunt have its enemys in france and its maybe a short time until it will be forbidden for ever.
they do all to shield the hunt against anti's, maybe if we would go there, make a contakt and show we are from the same stable we will be invited to see this great theater. I could only compare this with a real spanish bullfight, magnificent and wild, out of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fVAMR6xSr0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yuVAdvme2c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1--bFtXifM

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (28/03/23 05:47 AM)

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NitroX
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#375648 - 28/03/23 06:24 AM

Sologne forest in the Loire Valley in France. They still hunt stag with hounds.

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9.3x57
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#376843 - 19/05/23 11:54 PM

Quote:

I make a search about the chasse à courre france, the hunt par force which survive in france maybe only in this original style. was not able to find out what kind of weapon they use to kill the game.
its probably the most rough, brutal and bloddy hunt on this planet and the man who do it are maybe the most passionate

the hunt have its enemys in france and its maybe a short time until it will be forbidden for ever.
they do all to shield the hunt against anti's, maybe if we would go there, make a contakt and show we are from the same stable we will be invited to see this great theater. I could only compare this with a real spanish bullfight, magnificent and wild, out of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fVAMR6xSr0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yuVAdvme2c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1--bFtXifM

Those are awesome pictures, lancaster!!

And yes, a grand tradition there, to be sure.

Hey, take note:

A youngish fellow in there!! That's awesome.

Western culture is dying for lack of children to take it over, and our traditional hunting will die along with it. In-tact families and fathers that lead young fellows to the streams and woods and mountains in pursuit of game are needed. I'm always thrilled to see them when I do!!

The thought is on my mind today as my youngest daughter just had another baby. That makes 8 grandkids so far.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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NitroX
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: 9.3x57]
#376848 - 20/05/23 01:31 AM

Looks like the kill is being down with a lance.

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: NitroX]
#376859 - 21/05/23 01:05 AM

Yes - that stag is going to get poked. Have a friend, local guy who also guides for big game.
Got his spring bear one year with a spear he borrowed from my brother. Practiced with it all winter, then threw it into a black bear in the May of that year.
He said he could put his hunting boot inside the hole. The blood just poured out and the bear went down immediately. Sounds like fun. He was bored with shooting them with his compound bow.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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85lc
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: DarylS]
#376861 - 21/05/23 03:08 AM

Hunting with lance or sword is certainly an exciting, sporting way to take game.

In "A Sporting Chance" (https://www.amazon.com/sporting-chance-Unusual-methods-hunting/dp/B0006BQ9OO), author Daniel Pratt Mannix describes a huntre in Mississipi successfully hunting deer with a spear.

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RB

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kuduae
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: 85lc]
#376905 - 23/05/23 02:21 AM

The description as a „British navy forester’s Hirschfaenger” is just plain BS. Such Hirschfänger-like daggers - short swords, straight bladed or curved depending on time and fashion, are called “hangers” in British parlance. Until after WW1 they were part of the dress uniforms of midshipmen (ensigns, cadet officers) of the Royal Navy instead of the full-sized swords worn by commissioned officers.

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: kuduae]
#377360 - 17/06/23 10:32 PM

see this probably german made Hirschfänger for sale https://www.naturabuy.fr/Hirschfanger-Dague-venerie-allemande--item-7107920.html

the grip thats looking like deer antler have little holes looking like woodworm holes

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#377362 - 17/06/23 10:54 PM

Quote:

see this probably german made Hirschfänger for sale https://www.naturabuy.fr/Hirschfanger-Dague-venerie-allemande--item-7107920.html

the grip thats looking like deer antler have little holes looking like woodworm holes

I like this one.

Nice lines. some appear to me sort of "blobbish" but this has a nice straight form. The knuckle guard could stand a bit farther from the grip but other than that, very nice.

I need to forge one some day.

Here's what might be called a mixed-breed approaching a "Hanger" I made some years ago.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: 9.3x57]
#377365 - 17/06/23 11:03 PM

yours is a one for all

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#379403 - 17/09/23 03:56 AM

to have a textbook example how a hirschfänger have to look like, here is a presentation hirschfänger given by the kaiser in 1894, in the next Hermann Historica auction https://www.hermann-historica.de/en/auctions/lot/id/898480

"Description
The delicate blade of Damascus steel with a double-edged point, gilt ricasso and exceptionally fine gilt and chiselled hunting décor in the form of a capercaillie, stag and boar on the obverse. The reverse engraved with a dedication cartouche "Hirschthal 1894" on a deep blue background amidst intricate leafy vines. The supplier's name "Gust. Laute Hoflieferant Berlin" also in gold on the back of the blade. Fire-gilt grip fittings (abraded in places), the guard plate with the raised cipher "WR" below the imperial crown, the quillons extending into deer hooves. Beautifully beaded staghorn grip with three appliquéd "acorns", an upright acorn as a finial on the pommel. Black leather scabbard, the fittings with traces of gilding. The matching by-knife in the same design as the hunting hanger, the blade also in Damascus steel (somewhat stained) with gilt deer etched on both sides. Length of the hunting hanger 55.5 cm, the by-knife measuring 20.8 cm. Total length 60 cm. Attached gold sword knot, interwoven in black. In exquisite, barely handled condition. See Thomas M. Johnson, Imperial German Edged Weaponry, Vol. 3, with an extremely similar sword illustrated on page 213. Kaiser Wilhelm II was said to be passionate about the hunt. In 1876, at the age of 17, he took his first deer in Schorfheide and shot his 1000th kill, a 20 point stag, on 20 September 1898. He would often be accompanied by distinguished guests, such as the Austrian Crown Prince Rudolf in 1883 or the Russian Tsar Nicholas II in 1910, as well as countless noblemen, politicians and high-ranking officers. Superlative gift of honour, presented by the Kaiser to a prominent member of his illustrious hunting parties."

if I see this right 35000 euro is the starting price

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#379404 - 17/09/23 06:55 AM

Now that is a work of art.....& functionality!

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: 93x64mm]
#379425 - 18/09/23 05:47 AM

this is more basic - a shooting price won by a soldiers of the tradition company of the disbanded old 9. Jägerbattalion in 1926. the Hirschfänger was then a gift donated by the north-west german Jäger associations. you see how the Hirschfänger becoming more and more shorter being a status symbol.

offer in the us but I lost the link

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#379435 - 18/09/23 11:05 AM

Very nice lancaster.

You are giving me reasons for banging out a Hirschfänger.

Probably no big reason for it in the woods but I can always used it for slaughtering lambs on the ranch here.

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: 9.3x57]
#382663 - 18/02/24 05:57 AM

Dorotheum in Vienna have some interesting hirschfänger in auction now. remember the blade lenght of a Hirschfänger is not clear, its between an sword and knife.

62 cm long blade https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8934869/

83 cm long blade, old epee blade https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8934881/

36 cm long blade https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8934878/

13 cm long blade, not a hirschfänger anymore, hunting knife https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8934887/

the hirschfänger was the insigna of the forester and part of the uniform like the sword of an officer.
it show the forester was a "Hirschgerechter Jäger" - I try to translate it - a Deer-legitimate Hunter.
this came from old times also in the 18. century when this science reach its peak, it was the old school how to hunt the deer like you learning a craft for years.

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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9.3x57
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#382667 - 18/02/24 11:45 AM

Quote:

lenght
36 cm long blade https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8934878/

This one.

I need to make one.

Reading your post I thought of a "Properly ordered society".

Waidmannsheil!

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: 9.3x57]
#385034 - 31/05/24 04:49 AM

the most strange Hirschfänger I ever saw https://auctionet.com/de/3419258-golok-cipacing-java-markiert-1904-auf-ti-patjing

don't know if this was done original in 1904 or was a later gimmick by a funny chap but here the blade of an malayan golok blade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golok
was mated with a Hirschfänger grip.
think its not impossible that a native swordsmith got this european made grip parts into his hands and decide to use it.

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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: britisch navy forester [Re: lancaster]
#387912 - 28/11/24 11:16 PM

here is another Hirschfänger with a 78 cm long damascus blade inthe next dorotheum auctionhttps://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/9286060/#

some times the mediaevel term "hunting sword" would be more appropriate

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