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NitroXAdministrator
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Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V
      #367719 - 12/07/22 06:48 PM

Looking at aimpoint red dot sights, all of them seem to use a red dot circle. ???

Who makes a similar but uses a triangle or an open ended arrow type lit sight, inverted V?

My eyes show a dot as starry. Some other "dots" do not.

Also a small dot is required for accuracy. But is too small for quick shooting. A big dot is fast but not accurate.

Solution is an open arrow inverted V , or a solid triangle. Big. Quick shooting. The point of the triangle or inverted V, allows accurate shooting

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SharpsNitro
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: NitroX]
      #367724 - 12/07/22 11:53 PM

Meprolight makes a sight that has user selective reticles, not sure if they have one like you are after. Eotech will at least get you away from the simple red dot.

https://www.meprolight.com/product/mepro-foresight/

Edited by SharpsNitro (12/07/22 11:55 PM)

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Ripp
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #367727 - 13/07/22 01:45 AM

The red dots I have are a mixture...but the ones I like is a smaller dot with a larger circle around it.. that is what works best for me..

What are you using it on ? Handgun, rifle, shotgun??

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mauserand9mm
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Ripp]
      #367735 - 13/07/22 11:48 AM

I've got an el-cheapo Chinese reflex sight (it is sold under many different names - mine is "Tru-Glo" brand):

https://www.amazon.com/Ohuhu-Green-Sight-Reflex-Reticles/dp/B06XH22W2D


The above webpage shows the reticles but the below photo is from the package mine came in and has the reticle sizes:

https://i.imgur.com/JmXr79V.jpg
Edited: very large image edited to a link.

I prefer to use the 5 MOA dot since it doesn't obscure other parts of the target - the game is generally a similar colour to the background so it helps me to see as much of it as possible.

I tend to use red more than green. I though green might be better in bright light but not so sure about that. The sight has 5 intensity settings for each of red and green.

Also note that sideways parallax is good but vertical parallax is horrendous on this unit - it has a "rear sight" built into the rear housing to aim with and that places the dot towards the middle of the lens. If the dot goes above middle the parallax gets exponentially worse. I think that is why it is so cheap, but okay providing you are aware of it and aim properly.

Edited by NitroX (13/07/22 07:52 PM)

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Rule303
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #367738 - 13/07/22 08:05 PM

Trijacon 1-4 scopes (Not sure if higher magnification do) come with a triangle (coloured) sitting atop a picket post. This post is two finer posts. You can see through it if you look. This is not distracting as some think until they use it.

For a fine dot with the Aimpoint just turn the brightness down. For the larger dot turn it up.

I have used both the 1.25-4X24 and the Aimpoint on my 416 Rigby in Africa and hunting pigs here. Both are very fast to use.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Rule303]
      #369448 - 22/09/22 03:16 AM





A Triangle ∆ dot on a Docter, Aimpoint or Trijicon sight like these would be what I am looking for

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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Edited by NitroX (22/09/22 03:22 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #369449 - 22/09/22 03:26 AM

Quote:

I've got an el-cheapo Chinese reflex sight (it is sold under many different names - mine is "Tru-Glo" brand):

https://www.amazon.com/Ohuhu-Green-Sight-Reflex-Reticles/dp/B06XH22W2D


The above webpage shows the reticles but the below photo is from the package mine came in and has the reticle sizes:

https://i.imgur.com/JmXr79V.jpg
Edited: very large image edited to a link.

I prefer to use the 5 MOA dot since it doesn't obscure other parts of the target - the game is generally a similar colour to the background so it helps me to see as much of it as possible.

I tend to use red more than green. I though green might be better in bright light but not so sure about that. The sight has 5 intensity settings for each of red and green.

Also note that sideways parallax is good but vertical parallax is horrendous on this unit - it has a "rear sight" built into the rear housing to aim with and that places the dot towards the middle of the lens. If the dot goes above middle the parallax gets exponentially worse. I think that is why it is so cheap, but okay providing you are aware of it and aim properly.





https://www.amazon.com/Ohuhu-Green-Sight-Reflex-Reticles/dp/B06XH22W2D#



The verticle parallax could be a big issue frquick DR shooting.

--------------------
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...
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Marrakai
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: NitroX]
      #369585 - 27/09/22 08:24 AM

The elephant in the room is that when any of these pictured reflex sights/mounts are fitted, the shooter needs to lift his cheek some considerable distance off the comb to make the shot. Turns a perfectly fitted DR into a nightmare for fast instinctive shooting. Even introduces difficulty for precision shooting I would expect.

Principle is sound though, but I am still waiting for a truly low profile reflex sight to be mounted so the "dot" is at the same height as the standing leaf was.

The "window" need be quite small, as the cheek-weld will position the shooter's eye perfectly in a properly fitted double.

Seems to me all existing examples are designed for handguns, where there is no cheek-weld, and the gun can be brought into line no matter how high the sight-plane.

There was such a low-profile sight available about 35 years ago, pre-internet, but it didn't last and I can no longer find details. It was about 15mm wide and no more than 12mm high iirc, total! The two fellows in my shooting club who had these things back in the day have now passed on to their reward, so no details forthcoming from them I'm afraid.

Thought the Hex Wasp might have been a goer, but sadly bad reviews are far more prevalent than praise for that one.
Still waiting....

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant, but I have been holding back on all the threads on this topic hoping for some enlightenment, but finding nothing to entice me to run out and spend.

Now, back to dot shape...!

--------------------
Marrakai
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--------------------------------
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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Marrakai]
      #369586 - 27/09/22 11:56 AM

The Burris FastFire 4 is very low, much lower than most others and this is what I am mounting on my double. Otherwise all the others I have tried are way to high and you have to lift your head off the comb which makes for crappy and slow shooting.

Matt.

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Marrakai
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369587 - 27/09/22 12:39 PM

Thanks Matt.
I'll check that out!
Cheers.

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Marrakai
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369589 - 27/09/22 03:49 PM

Quote:

The Burris FastFire 4 is very low, much lower than most others and this is what I am mounting on my double. Otherwise all the others I have tried are way to high and you have to lift your head off the comb which makes for crappy and slow shooting.

Matt.



Looks good.

Four different reticles, 2x 3 MOA and 2x 11 MOA. The 11 MOA might be very inaccurate but should be fast. No doubt designed for shotgun wing shooting. IF it was on the 11 MOA reticle for buffalo, minute of buffalo chest would be OK, and fast during a charge. But fine brain shooting?

Marrakai, still no triangle V reticle! . No one is as smart and innovative as me.

Matt, where is the battery housing. Top or bottom? I pray it is not idiotic like trijicon and underneath! I couldn't see using one with the battery access underneath.

I see the point about needing to be low enough. I guess for guys with eyesight issues a red dot may be better enen if a little higher than blurred front of rear sights. So far I can use my open sights still. Touch wood. Though as mentioned the Trijicon dot is a star for my eyes. Does happen for all dot sights? Eg a Nightcore scope I have it's clear? I don't have any sights to compare.

Matt, please write up a review report for us. Thanks.

***

I'm thinking one of these might work on my Tikka 512SD with the 12g/7x65R barrels. A 3x MOA should be OK for the 7mm barrel out to 200m or 250m. And large enough for quicker shooting. The big circle with 3x MOA I think will work really well with a shotgun barrel. The 11 MOA for very quick close running rifle shooting. Or excellent for quick shotgun. 4x reticles, can pick and choose for the likely scenario.

My Tikka stock allows me to sight along the shotgun rib well. Used it on the weekend. But also have not had problems using a scope. The 9.3x74R barrels have a scope. The 12g/.223 barrels have a 1-4x scope.

The first DR SS I would try a sight like this is my Baikal .45/70. I think it has dovetail grooves already.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (27/09/22 04:10 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: NitroX]
      #369590 - 27/09/22 03:55 PM

https://www.burrisoptics.com/sights/fastfire-red-dot-sights/fastfire-4

FastFire™ 4
Find a Dealer

Instant dot-on-target accuracy for any firearm from handgun to shotgun. A great choice for 3-Gun and wing shooting, and any use from patrol to plinking. Multiple reticle options, massive battery life and 4 different models make FastFire 4 the most versatile red dot reflex you can mount.

Everything you loved about the FastFire 3 plus...

Toggle between four different reticle options
Larger sight window for faster target acquisition
Longer battery life - up to 26k hours on medium brightness
Brighter aiming point
Optional screw-on weather shield for a completely enclosed sight
Auto-Brightness & Auto-shutoff after 8 hours
Lightweight at 1.6 oz

MSRP: $419





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: NitroX]
      #369591 - 27/09/22 03:58 PM

https://www.scopedout.com.au/Burris-FastFire-IV


Burris FastFire 4
Burris FastFire 4

[Large View]
[Large View]
[Large View]
[Large View]
$675.00
6 In Stock
Zip it now, pay laterZip Payment


Qualifies for Free Freight

Toggle between four different reticles
Impact resistant housing
Brighter aiming point with longer battery life
Bigger sight window for faster target acquisition
Removable weather shield stays attached when slide mounted



It doesn't look any lower than some of the others? But hopefully is and allows a natural double rifle hold as per Marrakai's comments. Matt can tell us.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369592 - 27/09/22 04:01 PM

Matt,

Btw how does BGRC rules treat 1x red dot sights? Any scoring penalty?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Rod4861
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: NitroX]
      #369597 - 27/09/22 07:25 PM

Quote:

Matt,

Btw how does BGRC rules treat 1x red dot sights? Any scoring penalty?



same penalty as a 4 x scope under the Old BGRC rules. IE half a point per shot. IIRC the National rules are 1 point per shot. so in a 20 shot match the "off the rifle score " has 20 pints deducted.

Best not to use a scope or Aimpoint. Unless you have poor vision.

Rod

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Rod4861]
      #369598 - 27/09/22 08:34 PM

Not in Victoria. We have no scope or red dot penalty on any event except the classic events, however you can only use max 3x power on most of the events like Group 1 Nitro, Group 2 Nitro and Special Snap etc. Some events like Hunting Rifle can have any power you like.

The classic events like Classic Light Nitro, Classic 400 or Bore guns plus others are no scope or red dot at all, open sights only.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

Edited by Waidmannsheil (27/09/22 08:38 PM)

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93x64mm
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369601 - 27/09/22 09:48 PM

One thing to remember when using these red dot sights - where is the battery located!
In the case of the Burris it is on the top so you don't have to remove the unit from its base to change the battery. It has 20k+ hrs so that is a lot of run time.
It was my second choice, I preferred the Kahles Helia - both have the Noblex/Docter footprint.

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: 93x64mm]
      #369603 - 27/09/22 10:11 PM

Yeah and that's the important thing is that they have the Doctor footprint which gives you the greatest choice of bases.

The Burris comes with a weaver style base which has a thickness of 3mm but a thinner custom made one could be made.

I just measured mine and the distance from the base to the centre of the glass which is where the dot is located is 16mm.

I also have a Leica Tempus and this is 22mm.


Matt.

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Rule303
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Marrakai]
      #369604 - 27/09/22 11:04 PM

Marrakai that sounds like the original Aimpoint. They were rectangular in shape but that is more like 40 years ago they were like that.

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crshelton
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Rule303]
      #369638 - 29/09/22 11:38 AM

A question for anyone that can answer it.

What is the purpose of the "RED DOT" gun sights? What vision problem does the sight solve?

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mauserand9mm
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: crshelton]
      #369643 - 29/09/22 05:42 PM

Quote:

A question for anyone that can answer it.

What is the purpose of the "RED DOT" gun sights? What vision problem does the sight solve?



Good for old eyes because the dot is at the same focal point as the target, and is more point than aim. It's meant to be quick to use but it still has to be in the right spot to find. I initially had trouble finding the dot when I first used one on a handgun years ago.

I use a red dot on a scout scope mount on a couple of my ex-mil Mausers when I'm testing for accuracy - the standard German style V open sights are too much to contend with for my old eyes.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #369644 - 29/09/22 05:54 PM

I was asked by the Trijicon guys to write an independent article on the worth of the sights for ageing eyes on eg double rifles with otherwise open sights.

I had perfect eyesight at the time. I never got around to writing the article. I had a lot of trouble getting a simple obvious base to fit the rmr to a rifle. Trijicon USA wasn't interested ... An NE member, the Verney Carron dealer for the USA assisted and got me a couple of bases. The non battery Trijicon rmr are way too dim to use after the tritium has faded. I don't recommend these at all. The battery model has the battery access underneath ...wtf!?

One day I looked through my rmr sight and the dit was a star. I spoke to one of the trijicon guy, a member in here. And he said it was my eyesight. I didn't believe it. Took a photo and yes a nice circle, not a star. Bugger!

BwanaBob did say a triangle dot was also made. And might not star. Not listed on the website. And I don't want to have to buy one to see if it works or not.

A star would still be better than a blurred front sight. So far not an issue for me.

I dream of finding a red dot sight not blurred. I haven't looked through many.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (29/09/22 05:56 PM)

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Rule303
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: crshelton]
      #369669 - 30/09/22 08:24 AM

Quote:

A question for anyone that can answer it.

What is the purpose of the "RED DOT" gun sights? What vision problem does the sight solve?



If they are like the Aimpoint, parallax free then it is to speed up target acquisition at any range. Parallax free among other things means once zeroed the dot can appear to be located in a place other than dead center of the tube/housing/scope and if it is on target, you are on target. Standard scopes do not do this. So, when you mount the gun you do not have to get your head and eye in just the right place.

Of course, coloured dot is easier and quicker to find in low light situations and well suited to close in tactical situations. Also, black cross hairs can be lost on a dark coloured target when light starts to dim.
Next advantage is there is no eye relief constraints. You can be as near or as far from the sight as you wish.

The original Aimpoints were designed to be mounted on 20mm Anti-Aircraft cannons.

Edited by Rule303 (30/09/22 08:26 AM)

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crshelton
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Re: Red dot sights - non circle dots? Triangle or inverted V [Re: Rule303]
      #369675 - 30/09/22 11:39 AM

Thanks guys. Sort of what I thought.

So far I can still get by with express sights or peep sights or telescopic sight for long distance, but I wanted to understand what all the Red Dot fuss is about.

--------------------
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