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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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SeekHer
.224 member


Reged: 01/08/05
Posts: 17
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Big, BIG Boom
      #36649 - 31/08/05 06:36 AM

Good gentlesirs,

For my edification, if I wished to build a super long range rifle, for shots, at targets, to 3000M and not using the.50 BMG what would you suggest...Some have been using .338/378 etc. to 2000M...Would using a larger case get me the range and power necessary? I have seen a .338/416 Sniper in the wildcat tables...Would using a .404 or .505 case work out? It would probably have to be necked down to .33 or .35 to carry that distance or could I go to a .30 or .31? Any suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.

--------------------
There is a certain type of mentality that thinks
if you make certain inanimate objects illegal
their criminal misuse will disappear!


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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #36650 - 31/08/05 07:04 AM

This might not be the ideal site for your interest...


Seems most of the fellows here tend to discuss european sporting and dangerous game type rifles.
Do a little google-ing and look for Cheyenne Tactical.
They have developed a .40 caliber long range system that's more accurate than the .50BMG can be and seems to impart greater terminal energy at longer ranges than the big .50

Good success in your search.

Have you thought of light field artillery like the recoiless rifle?


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #36651 - 31/08/05 07:16 AM

Try this site

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #36653 - 31/08/05 07:47 AM

In reply to:

if I wished to build a super long range rifle, for shots, at targets, to 3000M
Any suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated.




Wake up your dreaming! ...... Just kidding you, but at 3000M How big is your target, a little less than an average barn?

When I read posts like this one it reminds me of a couple of GIs in a gun shop in El Paso, Texas,back in the early 60s, with one adviseing his friend, who didn't know anything about rifles, what rifle to buy,for deer season! This is what he told the guy!

" Get a "389 magnum" rifle, it will shoot absolutely flat for 1/2 mile, and then begin to rise!"

With that rifle you would have to hold low to hit your target at 3000M! (just over two miles)

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #36656 - 31/08/05 08:55 AM

Mac,

Try this. Woodchuck at 2051 yards

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB1&Number=77522&page=0&fpart=1

The big 338s in the heavy rifles still seem to rule. I suspect that is components being the answer.

Mike

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SeekHer
.224 member


Reged: 01/08/05
Posts: 17
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #36663 - 31/08/05 12:05 PM

I asked this of you as most sites do not have the knowledge of the larger bore cartridges that I thought would be required to make this wildcat.

We had discussed this around the campfire the other night and a couple of us are serious about building it...we have the heavy benchrest stock and the target barrel. We have to get an action, of course, and there are a number of target triggers that not being used amonst us. Probably weigh in about 45#/20K. No, I won't carry it around the fields, except in a shooting cart.

I am aware of Cheyenne Tactical's cartridges and of a number of others like PGW here in Canada.

Numerous shooting magazines have been having stories about shooting at 2000+ yards using hybrid cartridges and scopes mounted on special mounts with the rings about 10 to 12 inches higher than the standard rings. Not enough elevation in the dials to make it that far out. Also, the hold is dead on. Standard 1000 yard paper target or gongs are the targets.

Here in the Canadian Prairies, were some farms are 2 to 10 sections in length and the only thing seen above the stalks of wheat is an occasional tree for the entire distance.

How long ago did scoped 1000 yard shooting events really come about. They are starting to get passé, what with 10 shots into 5" and less.

Clifford "Skip" Talbot, deceased July 1st, founded the 50 Caliber Shooters Assn in 1985.

Varmint Hunters of America (VHA) has categories for 1000, 1250 and 1500 yard kills on Prairie Dogs.

Weatherby and Dakota proprietary rounds are just necked down big bore brass and I thought that I could maybe work up something that would be cool to shoot.

I mean, I love my .375H&H, .318 Westley Richards, .405 Win, .425 Westley Richards, .38/55, .40/65, .45/70, 50/110, .416 Rigby and .470 NE but the big guns hurt after a few shots. I really want to get a .350 & .450 Rigby for no other reason than to have them.

Thanks again and sorry about venting my spleen



--------------------
There is a certain type of mentality that thinks
if you make certain inanimate objects illegal
their criminal misuse will disappear!


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pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #36690 - 01/09/05 04:35 AM

read an articel about this(believe) 408 Cheyenne Cartridge, if the half is true it is the best long range cartridge now. the bullet question is the main problem and Cheyenne have bring this into a new dimension. the cartridge is based on the 505 Gibbs, interesting to see that more and more long range military sniper cartridges base on big game rounds or original big game rounds used.

338 Lapua = 416 Rigby
9,3x64 Brennecke = new russian sniper round
408 Cheyenne = 505 Gibbs

I think we will see more of this in future

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: pwm]
      #36691 - 01/09/05 05:11 AM


Re "interesting to see that more and more long range military sniper
cartridges base on big game rounds or original big game rounds used."

"I think we will see more of this in future"

If you add the 30 cal and 50 cal Sniper rifles to the following

338 Lapua = 416 Rigby
9,3x64 Brennecke = new russian sniper round
408 Cheyenne = 505 Gibbs
30 cal
50 cal

I think that you would have everything covered out to 2000 metres
or more and for most applications.

Maybe a Small calibre for Urban use but then you wouldn't be able to punch them
through walls.

500 Nitro

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #36728 - 02/09/05 03:42 AM

Very impressive link, Mike ! 2051 yds is a long shot on a Chuck, and he pulled it off, this time! How many do you think he crippeled at half that distance for every one he killed outright? His equipment is impressive as well, no expense spared here, for sure. Simply beautifully done rifle!

I really have no problem with guys shooting P-dogs, and Chucks at those distances, as much as I do the guys who take this a bit further, and start shooting ELK, pigs and Deer at these ranges. All that is needed to get a gut shot is a single step from the target, and at 2000yds, he may not show sign of being hit. As long as the shooter goes to the spot where the animal was standing when the shot was fired to look for sign of a hit,which may be only a little cut hair, I have no problem even at 2000yds, but I doubt that will happen, especially in canyon country where most elk and deer are seen at long range. Getting to that spot 2000yds away, may take three or four miles of hikeing to reach. I sencerly doubt anyone will leave his 200 lbs of gear there while he goes to see, and I'm sure he will not carry it along.

My first post was more a joke than anything else, except for the story about the "know nothing" GIs, that really happened! However, shooting at live animals at 3000M is no joke! Paper or steel targets is another matter alltogether. Seekher, is most likely the exception, but I would bet most hunters of elk, and deer couldn't put two out of ten rounds on a 55 gallon drum at 500yds,under hunting conditions, mush less at 3000M! This is target shooting, and should be kept in that vain, IMO.

I got a PM from Seekher, that led me to believe maybe I hurt his feelings with my post! That was not my intention at all, and, as I said, was more of a joke than anything else! I'm sorry if my post upset anyone.

It really is not my call, as to what others do, as long as it is legal, but I wouldn't shoot animals at those ranges, or even half that range,even if I could hit a stationary target every shot, and 3000M is simply takeing things "TOO FAR",on live animals, IMO!

I'll leave this to you guys from here! BYE!'

................Dang! 3000M ???????????????

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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SeekHer
.224 member


Reged: 01/08/05
Posts: 17
Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #37024 - 07/09/05 07:44 PM

This was posted to the same thread at another forum; Long Range Target Shooting.com and I thought that I should repost it here...From the February 2002, “Accurate Rifle Magazine” by Steve Hugel titled Quest For The Two Mile Prairie Dog from the Webmaster, J. M. Zullo at North Florida Shooting.com who I would like to thank.

At the range inquired about, I would be shooting, ONLY, at a metal gong, actually a 160 gallon cast iron hot water tank--that was used to heat radiators and not wash water...we have it now at 2,000M at when struck rings quite prettily (after about a 5 - 6 second delay). We will also try 1,000 yd paper targets (for a lark) and human silhouettes (for a real lark).

I would never in my wildest dreams ever attempt a shot at a live animal, larger than a prairie rodent, at ranges beyond 2,000. I would be leery of shooting deer size game at ranges beyond 500. I have more respect for the animal I'm hunting than to wound it and leave it to suffer and become predator din-din. I and my family would much rather be dining on those steaks than some furry carnivore.

I/we have upon numerous occasions put our shots into 55 gal drums at 1,000 & 1,500. You're referring to the tops or bottoms of the drums as the target, yes? But , I do agree with you that most would not have the ability, without training, to hit an upright oil drum at 500 yds. The drum, lenghtwise, is slightly larger than an elk or moose body.

The Varmint Hunters Assoc. has ranges for kills at 1,000, 1500 and now 2,000 yds and maybe 2,500 in the future. In researching this, I have found that there are some truly amazing cartridges being made, by some extremely competent gunsmiths that will probably carry that far and to 3,000. A couple have been talking of the .505 Gibbs with a different slant than the .408 Chey-Tac, a couple for the Nyati and T-Rex rounds, one on a .465 H&H and of course numerous with the .50 BMG (which I don't/can't use because of Canadian laws).

Mr. Gale McMillan of McBros Rifles/Stocks developed a cartridge called the Fat Mac which was a .50 BMG inserted in to a necked down 20mm case. I've requested info on it from McMillan but haven't heard back, as of yet. It would be an impossible cartridge to build here in Canada what with the availability, actually the lack there of, of .50 BMG components, I can't even imagine trying to secure 20mm rounds.

As far fetched as this sounded at the onset, I found that I'm not alone in the pursuit of extreme long range shooting and have gained some significant knowledge about shooting at these distances. I started with your forum, as I thought that the large caliber cartridges would be the way to go--I was partly correct. I wish to thank all for the input received and any slights were misinterpreted.



--------------------
There is a certain type of mentality that thinks
if you make certain inanimate objects illegal
their criminal misuse will disappear!


Edited by SeekHer (28/04/06 09:17 AM)

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #37026 - 07/09/05 08:21 PM


Interesting discussion and the fact that alot of people mention 500 Yards.

I was reading Sporting Shooter / Nick Harvey's answer to someone's question the
other day and in the answer he said "for normal hunting ranges to 500 Yards ...."
or words to that effect.

It really dissapoints me that writers perpetuate the thought that you can shoot game out
past 250 / 300 yards on a regular basis (excluding varmints). Most hunters I know aren't
that good shots. It's OK for Nick Harvey who probably shoots every day but I wish he
wouldn't say it as though everyone should try doing it.

Secondly, at out local range we have a Steel Plate at 500 Yards - probably 2ft Square.
One day a mate and I decided to try to hit it with open sighted guns - a lever action 45/70
and my Win Mod 70 .458WM. It took us both 7 shots to hit it and then from then on we
could do it every second or so shot.

However I still don't think we (general shooters who get that much practice)
should be shooting at game at any ranges past 300 Yard Max.

Any thoughts ?

500 Nitro

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: 500Nitro]
      #37264 - 12/09/05 08:10 AM

500 Nitro- I'm with you.
: Although I have been a competition shooter for many years and am quite comfortable with long range shots, I prefer to hunt more than shoot when after big game animals. I've shoot gophers and Rockchucks out to 454yd., yet I've not had to shoot more than 105 yards distance for moose, deer and elk, and generally less than 90yards. I prefer to hunt before I shoot.
: I fully believe that so much emphasis is placed on long range shooting & longe range rounds today, that hunters THINK it is normal to do such. The game suffers because of this. Game branches across North America survey the bush after the regular seasons and spot dead lost animals when they do. These are reflected in area permits and quotas the following year.
: There is barely a handful of hunters I've seen at the local range who are capable of hitting a big game animal in the boiler room offhand at 125yd. let alone the hundreds of hunters annually who try it out to 500 and beyond - because they read about it.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (12/09/05 08:19 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #37718 - 18/09/05 01:11 AM

BTW- the new BR 1,000 yd. record is 1.589" for 5 shots. Too bad he had the "flyer" or it would have been 1.5" even.
: I think the ctg. was an 8mm on an improved 68mm case- not sure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Big, BIG Boom [Re: SeekHer]
      #38199 - 26/09/05 10:27 PM

Try a 338 Lapua.

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