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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Cast Bullets

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

casting tin bullets ?
#363831 - 24/03/22 06:05 AM

with the lead hysteria a friend ask me about tin bullets. he want to use his Modell 1865 needle fire jaeger rifle for roebuck hunting. I have a suitable 16,3 mm roundball mould but never try to cast tin. what happen if you do it? will the tin coming out of the mould like lead? anyone try this before?

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1165
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Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: lancaster]
#363832 - 24/03/22 06:21 AM

I melted down some old pewter cups to get tin for adding to my lead mix for casting. Pewter is apparently 85-99% tin, with the rest mostly antimony and a few other trace metals but no lead. I poured the pewter into an ingot and it poured very well and clean.
The addition of a small amount of tin to a lead casting mix helps with the flow of the lead to fill out the mould so on it's own I imagine tin should cast bullets very well, although a little expensive if casting bullets in bulk.

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260rem
.375 member

Reged: 16/04/06
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Loc: NSW Australia

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: eagle27]
#363838 - 24/03/22 11:08 AM

I've used pewter mug's to mix with lead but never on its own, the biggest problem will be weight, they will have less penetration, energy retention and be very susceptible to the wind as its half the weight of lead.
It also has a lower boiling point so keep that in mind.
That's just mostly speculation but the only way to know for sure is to try it I guess.

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One shot is all you need.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: 260rem]
#363846 - 24/03/22 12:32 PM

Tin has a much lower melting temperature, so be careful not to overheat it.

The specific gravity of lead (Pb) is 11.34, which tin is 7.2 to 7.4, That makes tin 64% of the lead weight. That makes the lead ball 1.55 times the weight of a tin ball, same dia.

A tin ball should cast just fine, but perhaps there might be some "soldering" of the tin to the mould, of casting straight tin, I do not have ANY experience.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Tin+melting+temperature

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: DarylS]
#363850 - 24/03/22 05:23 PM

temperature and weight is clear, question is how the tin ball will fall out of the mould. meanwhile I read about pewter figure that they use talcum powder or blaken the mould with a candle before. of course they don't use steel mould and the pewter figure is more detailed and thinner what makes it a problem to get it out of the mould.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
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Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: lancaster]
#363854 - 24/03/22 09:23 PM

Tin bullets. Frangible.

Don't waste you time with arguing about lead safety. Lots of junk science in the debate.

Lead poisoning occurs by ingestion or inhalation only, not absorption.

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DD, Ret.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: DoubleD]
#363862 - 24/03/22 10:45 PM

thats not the question
question is if lead bullets are VERBOTEN
I said its for a friend who ask for lead free bullets for hunting. I have to talk with him about this, if he is hunting in the state forest lead is not allow anymore. maybe he will only work for the future because everyone here know the greens working on the lead question. maybe not before the war in ukraine ends, they have other problems in the moment but the lead ban will come one day. he will shoot a roebuck at maybe 50 meter and I believe a 16,3 mm tin ball would be also enough for this.

I have a steel mould and the problems is if tin will soft solder it together. with a aluminium mould I would see no problem.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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260rem
.375 member

Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: lancaster]
#363863 - 24/03/22 10:53 PM

All that you can do is try it out, it's a solution to a problem that should never have existed but that's life.
I don't think anyone has found a solution to this particular stupidity atm.

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One shot is all you need.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: 260rem]
#363875 - 25/03/22 05:04 AM

I spray all my moulds inside and out, with Lyman moly bullet spray coating. It works to prevent ANY soldering.

Candle flame does the same thing and might be a good alternative.
I like the moly spray as it's a very thin coating & does not change the diameter of the cast ball (lead).

BTW - if used in a ML, the ball diameter should be .020" to .030" or so smaller than the "bore" diameter to allow a thick enough patch to be used to fill the grooves. This is due to the ball not 'conforming' to the lands. It will be non compressible. The patch must also hold enough lube to soften the fouling of the first shot and the loading of a second if the second shot is required.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: DarylS]
#363877 - 25/03/22 05:19 AM

no , its for a prussian Jägerbüchse Model 1865, shooting a paper cartridge with a sabot

not this rifle but same model

he also wants me to build a chassepot needle fire hunting rifle for him similar to my own this year.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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260rem
.375 member

Reged: 16/04/06
Posts: 757
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: lancaster]
#363882 - 25/03/22 10:04 AM

If he's shooting sabbots, wouldn't a monolithic bullet or a steel ball bearing work in that situation?

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One shot is all you need.

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: lancaster]
#363883 - 25/03/22 10:08 AM

FWIW when I poured my melted down pewter cups into a Lyman ingot tray there was no problem with the release of the tin ingot from the tray i.e. no sign of any soldering although the cast tray was not clean. Shouldn't get any soldering in a bullet mould as there is no flux involved to deoxidise the mould.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: eagle27]
#363886 - 25/03/22 01:27 PM

My Lyman ingot moulds are both aluminum. I wonder with a steel/iron set of blocks, once up to casting temperature, if there would or would not be any soldering happening?
Perhaps not with only tin & no lead as is normal in lead/tin mixture solders.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: DarylS]
#363892 - 25/03/22 04:51 PM

yes, that what we will try pure tin only.
technical an undersized bullet shoot with a sabot out of a rifled gun barrel is illegal like owning hand grenades here. justification is there will be no traces so the police can't find the gun in case of murder.
I don't know what they doing if you use a slug or shot out in a smooth bore shotgun

We try to investigate if this law is also in use for a 150 years old antique but the ways troughout the bureaucracy are very long.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Jim_C
.300 member

Reged: 09/08/14
Posts: 174
Loc: USA

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: lancaster]
#363993 - 28/03/22 01:18 AM

Rotometals sells a lead-free bullet alloy consisting of 87.25% Bismuth, 0.75% Antimony and 12% Tin. It is a bit more picky about fit to the throat of the chamber. A homemade version (bismuth shot salvaged from some shotshells loaded with bismuth shot alloyed to roughly the same proportion of tin using 95-5 (tin to silver) solder seemed to do about as well. Either version isn't cheap--around $17-20 USD/pound--but they seem to function OK as a hunting alloy.

I've played with them a bit in ML guns and one of my Krags. It wants to be cast at about 500 degrees F. No problems with soldering in the mould, or fouling problems in the Krag.

YMMV of course, but it might be worth a look.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: casting tin bullets ? [Re: Jim_C]
#363995 - 28/03/22 03:35 AM

Good info, Jim.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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