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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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Conor_90
.224 member


Reged: 12/01/18
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
1952 270 Win
      #357410 - 18/10/21 10:57 PM

Hello, long time listener, first time calling in.

I have owned a few hunting rifles in my day but very few worthy of this board, and most of my hunting has been done in Northern BC about a far from Africa as one can get.

I recently sold some scopes and a shotgun and bought this Mannlicher Schoenauer 1952 in 270 win

A few questions:

I thought these had blued bolts swept back and were the last generation with a blued bolt? I guess not

Is the light coloured (Rosewood?) tip a factory option?

More pictures to follow






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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Conor_90]
      #357417 - 19/10/21 04:09 AM

Hello Connor, welcome to the forum. V-nice rifle indeed.
Cool base and rings, too. Are the iron sights usable with the base still attached?
I hail from the middle of BC - PG.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4198
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: DarylS]
      #357429 - 19/10/21 08:19 AM

Welcome to the forum Connor.
Lovely piece of kit there & its in bloody good nick too!
Rothhammer (amongst others) here is a huge MS fan, so if he doesn't chime in soon give him a PM.
I don't expect to go to Africa either, but hey we can all dream!
Do you have the scope for this one or has it been separated?
Again one of our European gurus will come to you aid there about that I would imagine.
Well done mate indeed on the pick up!
Cheers


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Conor_90
.224 member


Reged: 12/01/18
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: 93x64mm]
      #357430 - 19/10/21 11:20 AM

I believe the mount does not interfere with the sights and it may be QD. I don’t have the rifle in hand yet. Hoping it doesn’t place the scope too high

A friend who is much more err seasoned, than I has offered to sell me a period correct 4x but I might get a more recent one to be honest. Modern optics are too good to pass up sometimes


I would really like to add a good example of most of the classic European sporters to my safe someday. Up next a more modern Mauser build I think


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skeet2atlow8
.224 member


Reged: 04/11/14
Posts: 29
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Conor_90]
      #357432 - 19/10/21 01:04 PM

Depending on the height of the rings, the iron sights can be used. The mount and the pictured rings are by Williams.

--------------------
Skeeter


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: skeet2atlow8]
      #357433 - 19/10/21 01:42 PM

Hello Conor,

Welcome and thank you for posting.. Nice looking rifle.. will be great fun in the future I am sure..

Keep the faith on Africa.. A worthwhile goal for sure..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Conor_90]
      #357439 - 19/10/21 09:35 PM

Quote:

Hello, long time listener, first time calling in.

I recently.. bought this Mannlicher Schoenauer 1952 in 270 win

A few questions:

I thought these had blued bolts swept back and were the last generation with a blued bolt? I guess not

Is the light coloured (Rosewood?) tip a factory option?...








Rothhammer (amongst others) here is a huge MS fan, so if he doesn't chime in soon give him a PM.

Hello, Conor, and welcome to the discussions.

To 'answer' your specific questions first;

The M1952, also referred to as 'Model GK', was offered for about two decades and I really don't know if the bolts were all 'bright' or if some were factory blued over that period of time. Ebony tips were listed in several catalog images of the 1952 / GK, but I don't know if your rosewood tip would be a factory installed option or an 'aftermarket' adaptation. Steyr was known to be very accommodating but I believe special orders of that period were generally designated 'Model NO'.

There are other NE members who could provide you with more detailed answers regarding such models and options of the 'postwar' years, particularly member Kuduae whose information has been very complete and reliable.


As 9.3X64 indicated, and you likely know from having viewed previous NE posts, I am indeed quite a 'fan' of der Mannlicher Schoenauer. Though most of my interest / knowledge is focused on the 'prewar' (prior to WW2) models, I'd be glad to share some general information and images of the Model 1952 (GK), hopefully in a sensible order.

A very brief review of the 'prewar' MS may serve as a logical preface:

The Mannlicher Schoenauer was introduced by Oesterr. Waffenfabr. Ges Steyr at the 1900 Paris Worlds Fair in effort to garner interest among ordnance departments and armorers of the world with the goal of obtaining lucrative military contracts.

These 'M1900' models, with a unique and proprietary chambering of 6.5X54 MS, had actions and overall designs refined from previous and successful works of Ritter Ferdinand von Mannlicher with a unique rotary magazine by Steyr engineer Otto Schoenauer. The finely crafted arms appealed to some of the best known 'bespoke' English and Continental gunsmiths of the time who acquired some of these prototype and early production examples which were modified and offered to their clients in the form of fine sporting rifles.

In 1905 production began on the only significant military contract awarded the MS, that of the 'Greek Contract' Y1903, which would continue over the next three decades with Models Y1903/14, Y1903/27, System 1930, and variants of the aforementioned models.

Steyr also offered to gentleman sportsmen and professional hunters the M1903 model, also in 6.5X54, in fine sporting rifle, stutzen (full stocked carbine) and special take down versions of a system that had been employed by Westley Richards.

Alongside the M1903 was offered the M1905 in the same configurations but with another exclusive and proprietary chambering, that of the 9X56 MS. Continuing on this trend, models of M1908 and M1910 were introduced in the corresponding years and with their own proprietary chamberings of 8X56 MS and 9.5X57 MS, respectively, followed by the M1924 (Sequoia) which had a longer receiver and was chambered exclusively for the 'U.S. 1906 Cartridge' (.30-'06).

The longer receiver and addition of 'guide rings' to the Schoenauer magazine allowed for a variety of cartridges / chamberings to be offered in the same model unlike previous models which had been cartridge specific. This resulted in the 'High Velocity' offerings which have become known to collectors as 'M1925', though none were so marked by Steyr on the receiver ring.

All models from M1903 through 'High Velocity' were available through the Second World War though production was significantly curtailed during the Anchluss period of 1938 - 45, tapering to a halt by war's end.




Pages 50 and 51 of the 1939 Stoeger Catalog, which designated models only as 'Carbine', 'High Velocity Rifle', and 'Take Down Model'.


Here are some Stoeger catalog images of the 'postwar' period:



Production resumed with Model of 1950, available in a variety of chamberings, which was essentially a continuation of the 'High Velocity' but with a few revisions. Gone was the trap door steel buttplate, Take Down Model, options such as folding peep sight, removable horn grip cap. Added was a 'shotgun style' safety.




Model of 1952 Carbines (from 1954 Stoeger)




Detail of above
Removal of 'loading ears' meant that loading by use of 'stripper clips' was no longer an option.




More from 1954 Stoeger




By 1960 Steyr offered the Mannlicher Schoenauer in models MC and MCA, which denoted a high combed 'Monte Carlo' stock designed for use with a scope only or 'Monte Carlo All Purpose' (Monte Carlo Amerikanische) for scope or iron sight use. The Model 1952 became known alternately as 'Model GK' from then onward.
There is disagreement among some collectors / owners regarding whether 'GK' indicates the earlier style of stock or the 1952 change to the swept back bolt handle. Kuduae has stated that GK translates to Gerader Kolben - 'straighter butt(stock)', I tend to believe him.

Those who did not desire the MC or MCA stock were advised to order their MS as 'Model 1952 GK'.



Stoeger, 1962







Here are images (from Stoeger cat's) of MS factory scope mounting systems from the 'postwar' period:







Apologies for poor quality of the later Stoeger Catalog images, as I swiped them from the 'net.
The 1939 Stoeger images are my scans of an original catalog.






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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #357442 - 19/10/21 10:41 PM

Conor:
Like Rothhammer I am not particularly familiar with the post-1950 models, but I believe your rifle may be a full-wood carbine that has had the stock shortened. The placement of the forward screw, where a sling stirrup might be located, and the short barrel, suggest this (to me), in which case the rosewood tip might not be original.

Nice Mannlicher BTW, you will enjoy custody for sure.

...and don't be shy about posting your other "working" rifles too: we are all interested in pretty-much everything firearm-related!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Marrakai]
      #357444 - 19/10/21 11:19 PM

Quote:

Conor:
Like Rothhammer I am not particularly familiar with the post-1950 models, but I believe your rifle may be a full-wood carbine that has had the stock shortened. The placement of the forward screw, where a sling stirrup might be located, and the short barrel, suggest this (to me), in which case the rosewood tip might not be original.






I wondered the same about the forend screw until I looked close at the image from Stoeger, 1962:



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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Conor_90
.224 member


Reged: 12/01/18
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #357446 - 19/10/21 11:43 PM

Thanks for your detailed responses, the rifle has a full length 24 inch barrel and was produced in 1954.


Hopefully the rings offered with the mount are the “ low” or lowest option or I can find some to match the comb.

Edited by Conor_90 (19/10/21 11:46 PM)


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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Conor_90]
      #357465 - 20/10/21 09:01 PM

What is the model designation on the receiver ring, GK or NO? Model GKs were made for the European market with double set triggers, blued bolts and swept back bolt handles. Rifles for the American market were usually made with bright bolts and single triggers more often than not.
Foreend tips were made from several materials over the years. You may encounter contrasting woods, often bleached out by time and light, or plastic. On many late rifles a black tip + white line spacer is simply painted on to the wood.


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Conor_90
.224 member


Reged: 12/01/18
Posts: 45
Loc: Canada
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: kuduae]
      #357537 - 23/10/21 01:24 PM

Do not have it yet but would assume it is the NA model, single trigger, swept back bolt.

Might have to get a 1950 for the single trigger blues, straight bolt combination I dream of? A nice 7x57 was up in this combo but I didn’t have the funds

Looking forward to getting this one in hand. A nice Mauser is next.

I usually see them with ebony or potentially painted tips.

Edited by Conor_90 (23/10/21 01:27 PM)


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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 1952 270 Win [Re: Conor_90]
      #357575 - 24/10/21 11:13 PM

Quote:



Might have to get a 1950 for the single trigger blues, straight bolt combination I dream of? A nice 7x57 was up in this combo but I didn’t have the funds







All of the pre 1952 models had blued bolts and were available with single trigger.

Any double trigger in a 'prewar' model can easily be swapped out for the single setup, readily available from Y1903 military models (they interchange).

High Velocity ('M1925') models were available in 7X57. The M1924 was .30-'06 chambered.

You also have the option of loading by 'stripper clip' with a pre 1952 if unscoped or mounted with a quick release such as claw mount or 'Vienna Snapper'.

The 'prewar' Take Down Model is a wonderful bit of kit and often they were equipped with the 'special folding peep sight.







--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation


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