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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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UtahShotgunner
.275 member

Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA

Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle??
#354697 - 29/06/21 05:22 AM

Both barrel and action have German & British proofs.
Looks like someone poorly bedded the metal.
Per Jon Speed's s/n list, if this is an Oberndorf commercial action it would have been produced in 1913, which doesn't match either date on the action. (??)
There were no pictures of the bottom metal.
Westley Richards inscription is not shown in any of the pictures.

Apologies for size of pics. They are directly from auction site.

This is the auction house description.

Quote:

Mauser model 1904 in 7mm with a five round capacity and a 25.5" barrel. This rifle has been
"Sporterized" with a new Monte Carlo style stock and the mid barrel sights removed. Red Head brand
rubber butt pad. Solid wood checkered one piece stock. Blued bolt, receiver, barrel, magazine floor
plate and trigger. Pacific brand adjustable peep hole sight. Front fixed blade brass bead sight. All
visible parts with matching serial numbers. Ports in the stock for mounting hardware for a shoulder
strap. Rear of bolt safety switch. Left side of receiver bolt release. Marked with Nitro Proofs on the
barrel. Marked on the receiver "Waffenfabrik Mauser A.-G. Obendorf A/N 1907 BV". Marked on the top of
barrel "Westley Richards & Co London 7M/M Nitro Proof BP BV NP 36938".

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: UtahShotgunner]
#354698 - 29/06/21 06:01 AM

a complete mystery

wonder what happen with the stock, looks like someone change a medium or big bore barrel against the 7 mm

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Louis
.375 member

Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: lancaster]
#354708 - 29/06/21 07:28 PM

This poor rifle has been so much badly altered that it will cost a fortune to restore it to her former glory.
It looks to me as if this rifle was mounted on a military action ("Mod 1904" instead of "Waffenfabrik etc." on the left side of the action and hole for the rifle sling on the trigger guard) instead of a purely commercial one; with regards to the marking "Waffenfabrik etc. 1907" on top of the action, I have already seen military G98 models from the early 1900's bearing these inscriptions.
I am sure that Kuduae will provide as usual with useful insight.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

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UtahShotgunner
.275 member

Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: Louis]
#354714 - 29/06/21 11:42 PM

Yes, rifle is far from its original form, whatever that may have been.

There were just enough clues to fire up my curiosity.
Best case, it is worthwhile to renovate to a nicer condition.
Worst case, I part it out.

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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1225
Loc: usa

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: UtahShotgunner]
#354715 - 30/06/21 12:06 AM

I was looking at this one online myself.

I think it's an attractive rifle in spite of its flaws. The Pacific aperture sight is also interesting.

If it were mine, I would probably plug the receiver holes with filler screws and shoot it just like it is. It's a fine caliber and interesting rifle.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: mckinney]
#354722 - 30/06/21 04:46 AM

The Mauser Modell 1904 was a short- lived Mauser Export military rifle in 7x57. Both Colombia and China bought some. It was built on the same intermediate length action as the Turkish 1903, the Peruvian 1909 as well as most pre-WW2 commercial sporters in 7x57 aka .275 Rigby. As the receiver shows contemporary Oberndorf BU civilian proofmarks, it was originally delivered from the factory as a type C Army hunting rifle. Those humble sporters were often built on rejected or leftover military parts and keep military markings and serial numbers. As Rigby was the sole official Mauser importer in the early 1900s, other British gunmakers like Westley-Richards circumvented the monopoly. Often they bought complete military rifles through the international arms trade and tore them down for the actions. But there was a black market too for actions and parts smuggled out of the German factories, government arsenals as well as DWM. But more likely W-R here merely reworked a humble model C and sold it as an economy sporter.
Much later the barreled action was modified. The bolt handle was bent back, the action drilled for scope mounts, open rear sight removed and the Pacific receiver peep sight put on. Finally the barreled action was mounted in the orphaned stock of another Mauser actioned rifle. This stock was originally for a standard length action. Look at the right side photos: the ejection/ loading port cutout of the stock is too long for the shorter intermediate action. So the longer receiver ring overhangs this cutout to the rear by about 5 mm. These alterations were most likely done post-WW2 in the USA.

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JDL
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Reged: 25/12/10
Posts: 252
Loc: Louisiana

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: kuduae]
#354724 - 30/06/21 07:10 AM

Very interesting rifle.

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UtahShotgunner
.275 member

Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: JDL]
#354730 - 30/06/21 12:24 PM

kuduae,

Thank you!
Exactly the kind of information I was looking for!

I am a very amateur Mauser historian, but I have developed an eye for anomalies. Then I can't help but try to buy them.

Then turn to the real experts to tell me what I bought.

Being the same pattern as the 1903 Turk & 1909 Peruvian, what are the odds it has a small barrel shank?

The last two Oberndorf(commercial) actions I spotted and bought were both 1903 production standard length with small shank barrels.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: UtahShotgunner]
#354733 - 30/06/21 06:52 PM

Quote:

Being the same pattern as the 1903 Turk & 1909 Peruvian, what are the odds it has a small barrel shank?

>95%
Look at the serial numbers on the bottom metal (magazine, follower and floorplate) too. If they don't match the one on receiver and barrel, that assembly may be a replacement too.

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UtahShotgunner
.275 member

Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: kuduae]
#354734 - 30/06/21 08:35 PM

Before starting my threads I emailed WR via their website, but honestly didn't expect a reply.

Woke up to this message in my inbox.

Quote:

Dear Mr. Shotgunner

Thank you for your email and details of the early Mauser based Westley Richards rifle that you have.
We have very little information on rifles from this serial number range, however I can confirm that the rifle was built circa 1908.

I hope that this information is of interest to you.

Yours sincerely

Anthony Alborough-Tregear

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UtahShotgunner
.275 member

Reged: 07/01/08
Posts: 53
Loc: PA

Re: Genuine Westley Richards magazine rifle?? [Re: UtahShotgunner]
#354771 - 02/07/21 02:59 AM

Rifle arrived and some observations.

Bore is a mirror.
Military pattern bottom metal is number matching.
S/N polished off bolt root when handle was modified but the "B & U" proof marks remain on the bottom. Firing pin, extractor, shroud and safety are matching.

The modification were done a long, long time ago.
The bedding compound seen next to the barrel and action(looks like Acraglas) is a "patch" for all the material that had flaked and fallen out. I cannot identify the material that was used to bed it originally.
Material is yellow in places, red, and brown in others.
Pad is a classic "Red Head".
Quick connect sling swivels are marked "King Pat. Pend." so not purchased out of the latest Brownells catalog.

Rear ring is not drilled and tapped. The barrel D&T. From the marks in the blacking, it was fitted with small bases for an externally adjustable scope.
I will probably install filler screws, but I do have bin drawer full of old bases and a couple of Litchert scopes. May mount one up.

For now though, it gets a place in the rack.

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