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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383656 - 26/03/24 03:43 AM

Quote:

Maybe the solution is to use 45-70 but re-name it. Hmmmm we could call it 450 Howdah?

Rocky Mountain Cartridge Co will make brass and put a custom name on it. They arent cheap ($10-20 a round) but it is do-able

Adding to the list:
450 EXPRESS
45 Manchester
458 No2
450 2inch
450 2 1/2
450 I & A (India & Afrika)

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If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

Edited by EDELWEISS (26/03/24 03:46 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: Jim_C]
#383657 - 26/03/24 04:15 AM

Quote:

Have you considered the 50-70? Sourcing brass can be an issue (but how much would you need?). 348 Winchester brass can be blown out and made to work, rim diameter is a little smaller.

Good suggestion, as-is the .50 Alaskan. I had a rolling block chambered for .50 Alaskan (McGowan bl.) and it used 84gr. 2F and a 550gr. bullet. Buffalo arms has both .50 Alaskan and .50/70 brass afaik.
Brother Taylor has a Shiloh Sharps chambered for the .50 Alaskan(McGowan bl.) and with his 600 paper patched bullets, he gets 91gr. Swiss 1 1/2F into the cases due to the bore sized (after patching) bullets.
My .50/70 (1859 bl.lined & chambered by Sharps in 1867) for the 1868 Sharps shot best with 10gr. of 3031 and 60gr. 1F GOEX with the 450gr. bullet.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: DarylS]
#383658 - 26/03/24 06:14 AM

The issue with anything besides 45-70 is getting barrel inserts; unless you know of a source. I am going to see if its possible to rechamber 45-70 to 577-450.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383666 - 26/03/24 10:34 AM

Nitrox - The UK is not good for handguns (or any guns really) but there is a concession

Certain cartridges are considered "obsolete" and guns chambered for them are not classed as firearms
(unless you have live ammunition with them in which case go straight to jail)

This includes all pinfire, bores larger than 10, and most rimfire (except .22 and a couple of others)

Many of the older big game cartridges also but not nitro military calibres

They made a mistake with some of the pistol cartridges, with the criminal gang element buying handloaded .44 Russian, .32 and some metrics, so we had to put those on a collector's certificate or dispose of them

I have .577 Snider, .577/450 MH and a .500 on certificate but woe betide me if I get caught shooting the handguns with that ammunition

TH

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: TH44]
#383764 - 30/03/24 05:08 AM

Regarding my post on the Sabatti "method" of grinding muzzles to somehow affect regulation when they couldn't be bothered doing it properly, I've moved it to a NEW THREAD.

DISCUSS IT THERE. NOT HERE.

"The Sabatti Dremel School of Gunsmithing"
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=383725&an=&page=0&vc=1

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383779 - 30/03/24 05:33 PM

Here's a SxS 12 bore, shipped right to your door.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywR5M0MJVCA&ab_channel=TAOFLEDERMAUS

Please, do NOT use Pyrodex. Pyrodex is 17% by volume, perchlorates. Perchlorate fouling, when mixed with moisture (even just from the air) becomes acidic & has an affinity for iron molecules, according to the tests done by Bill Knight for Dan Pawlack, inventor of that 'replica' powder.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: DarylS]
#383790 - 31/03/24 06:26 AM

Quote:

Here's a SxS 12 bore, shipped right to your door.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywR5M0MJVCA&ab_channel=TAOFLEDERMAUS

Yeah we've talked about the Diablo before. I "get" the draw, when they were $300, now that they are $700 plus Im not so sure. That being said I have a 6" and a 8", because I got them cheap. Essentially they are a double barrel inline 12gs pistol that uses a 209 primer. Its NOT what Id call a Howdah. The grip is even more awful (from a Howdah standpoint), than the Auto-Burglar style grip on the Pedersoli 45/410 guns. They also only have one hammer with a lever to switch between barrels, so a second shot means cocking the gun again AND flipping the lever to the other side. Its not exactly something Id want to do with a pissed off tiger or bad guy charging.

Again its NOT even close to being a Howdah, even in some modern iteration....but they are fun as something--Im just not sure what.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383801 - 31/03/24 06:07 PM

If having to flip the lever to fire the second barrel, how did Jeff fire both barrels at the same time more than once?
I agree that inlines using shotgun primers are not the same as the older muzzleloading howdah pistols using caps.
The grip appears more normal than Pederoli's is, on the .45 Colt versions. They don't even have hammers at all. What's with that??

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: DarylS]
#383806 - 01/04/24 01:42 AM

You can put the "switch" in the center to fire both barrels at the same time. There really isnt a center position; but the lever will sorta stay there and when the hammer falls it hits the side of both firing pins. Im not sure what the purpose of firing both at the same time is, anyway, besides some YeeeeHa factor

The first version of the grip was SHORT, as in pinky dangling short. The current is long enough for a full grip BUT theyt insisted on finger groves. Ive yet to see any period Howdah with finger groves.

Perhaps the Diablo might have some Howdah influence; but its pretty clear to me that its more gansta sawed-off inspired. Again I like it (I have two after all), and Id like to tell myself its a Howdah; but thats like saying my kids peddle bike is ready for the Tour de France.

Maybe if they made it with TWO hammers and better grip, (certainly without finger groves). Early in AGC's (the company that builds them), they made a more traditional two hammer, two trigger Caplock BUT they Fd it up with that stupid finger grove grip... That model has since been dropped from the line up. At one point they made a 20 gauge model; but that has also been dropped. Its a shame because I would have preferred a 2o gauge.

AGC's newest market push is to add a grip that allows attachment or an AR stock and a handguard with a picatinny rail. So imagine a Modern Howdah with a folding/sliding stock and a forward handgrip. I like their desire to push the market, they even make crossdraw kydex holsters (after dropping the leather model) and a drop leg model

NOW if they only made a O/U model, Id have to add a third and tell myself I was a modern day "Remington" in a BAD modern day remake of the Ghost Boars of Texas ....

As for the Pedersoli 45/410 guns, they make a Hammer version as well as the hammeless version(s) and even a single trigger version.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383810 - 01/04/24 03:34 AM

I can't get "past" the stupid stocks on the Pedersoli ctg. pistols.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: DarylS]
#383811 - 01/04/24 04:02 AM

Quote:

I can't get "past" the stupid stocks on the Pedersoli ctg. pistols.

You know I keep hearing that. I just googled Howdah pistol images and I see more than one REAL howdahs with a saw handle grip...not many but a few. Then theres the Pedersoli Alaskan which doesnt have a saw handle grip. Looking at Google images again, there are a few REAL Howdahs with similar grips.

My biggest issue with the Pedesoilis is the cartridge. 45Colt seems waaaay to small. I have all brass 410 slugs that dont look completely right either and then theres the power factor.

Im toying with 45-70 as a period cartridge and an easily available build option. I considered 20/577 but thats even harder to find build parts (barrels, reamers, dies). IF I can find someone to make 500S&W inserts, then Id down load rounds to an antique shotgun pressure level. At least then Id have a 50 caliber cartridge. Ultimately 45-70 seems the best and easiest build option

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DarylS
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Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383813 - 01/04/24 06:54 AM

.500 S&W would be a handloading proposition only due to it's high pressure.
Now, a .50 Alaskan would work, as-would a .50/70.
Dies, brass, bullets & reamers all available & more powerful than the .50 S&W at allowable pressure.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: DarylS]
#383814 - 01/04/24 08:25 AM

Ill look into the 50s. It will all depend what the gunsmith is will to take on. He has done some crazy projects for me like a Tactical lever gun and cutting down the barrel of a flintlock rifle to about 12 inches, because I saw a 17th century original meant for hunting from horseback. He didnt mind the flintlock project too much; but boy has he reminded me how much work the lever gun was, even though hes had four other customers have him do one for them ever since they saw mine...

I cant imagine there will be much future Howdah requests after mine.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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3DogMike
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383819 - 01/04/24 11:35 AM

Quote:

Ill look into the 50s. It will all depend what the gunsmith is will to take on. He has done some crazy projects for me like a Tactical lever gun and cutting down the barrel of a flintlock rifle to about 12 inches, because I saw a 17th century original meant for hunting from horseback. He didnt mind the flintlock project too much; but boy has he reminded me how much work the lever gun was, even though hes had four other customers have him do one for them ever since they saw mine...

I cant imagine there will be much future Howdah requests after mine.

Soooooo…….once again, all talk - no pictures.
Pictures or it didn't happen.
No excuses, there are plenty of members that can post the pictures for you.

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: 3DogMike]
#383838 - 02/04/24 12:39 AM

Quote:

Soooooo…….once again, all talk - no pictures.
Pictures or it didn't happen.
No excuses, there are plenty of members that can post the pictures for you.

I told you I SOLD it. I can tell you it was Serial Number 6. More importantly, what does that have to do with the Howdah discussion?

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#383889 - 04/04/24 04:40 AM

I talked to the guy who does the inserts. Hes not sure if 50 caliber is possible for an insert but said he would do some measurements and get back to me. Until then Im trying to satisfy myself with 45-70.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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EDELWEISS
.375 member

Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg

Re: A modern custom Howdah pistol [Re: EDELWEISS]
#384559 - 28/04/24 11:56 PM

Ive been giving this a LOT of thought. The Smith and Wesson X Frame with a 5" barrel in 500S&W fills the MODERN box if ever needing to stop a Tiger climbing up your elephant BUT it just doesnt have the Howdah "feel" for me, well certainly not the traditional "feel".

I think it has to be a SxS with hammers. Id consider a O/U if it was to be something carried in a holster, say whilst in Big Bear country. Id be open to a lighter load of 500 S&W; but a all brass cased 20ga slug with the lead exposed would work too.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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